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https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/10mm-vs-40-s-w-similarities-differences-and-uses/
I’d like a 10mm long slide, but I am too invested in .45ACP.
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I love the G40 enough that I bought my son one too. I just ordered all the Underwood 180gr they had that’s running 1350-1375 outta that 6”. I prefer the 165s but in these days ….
The extreme penetrators are perfect in bear country. Both it and TUI are running around 1600 fps.
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We shot 40 outta the 10s. Like a 38 in a 357. Some are against it. We mix matched the ammo in the mags and had no feeding issues. In bad times it might become necessary.
The 1200 fps 180gr mark set is slow. Most 200s run that. Hornady flex tips run bout that and I don’t care for them. I’m also not carrying it as a defensive weapon as much as a hunter. I’m looking for 18-24” penetration with a hollow point and way more for bear load.
Chukes Outdoor and Alaskan Ballistics are two YouTube channels worth checking out for the 10mm
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1911
Glock
The extractor holds the round in place
again many are against it but we’ve had zero issues and it’s worth knowing
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Bad side of 10mm is for quality stuff that is loaded like it’s supposed to be is that I just paid $200 for 140rds which included shipping. 180gr Underwood running around 1350-75fps
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<p style=”text-align: left;”>I have always hated the comment “loaded like it’s supposed to be”. There’s a reason why so many of the early guns were breaking.</p>
Especially when Cooper had originally specified 200gr/1000fps for the 10mm.
Norma went with a 170/1300 and a 200 at a velocity I can’t remember. I still have a little of the Norma 200gr stuff.I have had 4, 10mm’s. And it’s still one of my favorite auto loader cartridges. But I still choose the .45 over it, and did during the great sell-off.
The added power of the 10mm is wasted 99% of the time for most of us. And this from a guy who packed a couple of different 10mm’s while out hunting in bear country.
Honestly, I am getting 1050 with a 200gr .45 load. It’s hot, not easy to deal with and will never see the inside of a Glock.
But anymore, I go into “bear country”, I am just packing a .45 with ball or hard cast (loaded warm) target ammunition, because penetration.-
Loaded like it’s supposed to be means 180 at 1200fps they original specs. Not 1045 like much of the ball is
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Lemme show ya something from Paul Harrell on YouTube just so you understand it’s not just me
does that look like “it’s loaded the way it’s supposed to be”?if I wanted a 40 or a 45 I’d have it. Had them and they failed to perform. I didn’t pay this money to get less. If a manufactured gun can’t handle it then reset or quit.
The 10 in a 6” was chose because of the distance in western Oklahoma I’m shooting and the bear country I’m hiking and hunting in. -
Here’s another example of weak “loaded like it’s supposed to be”
180 at 1200 not 900 with 380 penetration and wound channel performance
at best somebody will wound an animal thinking they were ok hunting at distance with it at worst it’ll get ya killed by what you shoulda been able to stop “loaded like it’s supposed to be”
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This just hit my inbox. Y’all should read it
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Springfield has discontinued their line of 10mm XDs.
I’m not sure what that’s about. My son believes that they are going to announce a new line at shotshow. I’ll try and get him to let me know when he goes. -
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A case for the 10 which it appears she is now carrying
https://americanhandgunner.com/discover/musher-learns-to-carry-a-bigger-gun/
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Again, I am not a fan of “hot loaded” 10mm ammunition, or a lot of it as such.
The reason? Simply, having seen what happens when hot ammo is put into a gun either not designed for or not set up for the hot stuff, I tend to get very apprehensive about high pressures.
My Delta Elite would handle the hot loads, but it was rebuilt to use them exclusively and would choke on the “Fed-Lite” level loads.
The Smith 1076 just needed a new recoil spring. But it was a chunk of stainless and plenty heavily constructed.
The Glock 20, never saw one hot round, the chamber dimensions were not favorable for it. Also having a couple of Glocks go through my hands that had KaBoomed, including a G21 with factory level loads that I performed the autopsy on, I don’t like what happened when it goes wrong.There are a lot of little things that can be done to a 1911 to help it survive hot loads, but the plastic guns don’t have the same ability, design wise.
I may one day pick up a Tanfoglio 10mm and do all the things that need to be done to handle the warm loads, but with the exception of capacity, it does little if anything that I can’t get from a properly built 1911.
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“Hot Loads”
Velocity and bullet weight aren’t the true story of a “hot load”
No factory 10mm ammo including Buffalo Bore and Underwood is outside of SAAMI specs and Glock as well as ALL the other reputable manufacturers make guns to run within those specs. Many don’t delve into 10mm and other calibers because they know they’ve got a substandard product and metallurgy regardless of the design
Most blow ups can be attributed to ammo and improper loading. I’m doubtful of many stories especially with low pressure rounds like 45acp. Most of what I’ve seen at matches and at the range were user error and a lot of excuses. Double loads, firing after squibs, using the wrong bullet etc.
The Glock is designed to blow through the grip which is does and reduces injuries. Most only suffer superficial hand injuries along with wallet lightening and ego malfunctions
Anyone who is loading their own above SAAMI deserve to have an expensive lesson. It’s easily accomplished by using the wrong powder and bullet combination but even easy to follow proper loading data for a good day
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So the G21 mentioned was using a 5gr charge of Bullseye and a 230gr jacketed RN bullet. How do I know this? Because it was loaded on my machine, with every step being counted, one by one, under observation.
It was a bad PMC case, case head failure. And that’s according to Glock.
Have the pictures here somewhere as proof.Glock replaced the frame and missing/damaged parts.
It didn’t go down the frame, it expanded and cracked / blew out the frame, one shard cutting the shooters trigger finger good enough for him to require stitches.I picked him up at the range, all of the parts that could be found and we went back to my shop after the ER.
The G isn’t designed for the pressure to go down the frame, that’s just where the weakest part or unsupported part is.
My experience with the case head failures stretch from my days running a .38 Super in both ramped and unramped barrels, as well as the previously mentioned.45’s and 10mm’s.
The 10mm’s were the lucky ones, two in two magazines. Commercially remanufactured ammo, it was 180’s at approximately 1100fps according to the box. Can’t say why but instead of shooting the G20 first as had been the plan, I went with the Delta. Second round of the second mag, sounded funny, lots of smoke coming from places it should not have been.
The steel lined Pachmayr grips proved their worth again, the case head had blown out, dented the next round and jammed up the mag. The gun was fine, as was I. Well I wasn’t going to risk anything with the G, so I finished off the box with the Delta and had another smoky round, still have the cases here as examples.Had I been using the G, I would have been driving back into town to the hospital. The Delta, shrugged it off and kept going. Just needed a good cleaning.
Had a badly ramped .45/1911 barrel give me issues in the early ‘90’s, anything put through it hotter than a powder puff 650fps/185gr would pop off. Didn’t matter what case, just a bad ramp job.
Again, Coopers original spec for the 10mm was an 180 at 1000, which the .40 readily hits. Used to be, I didn’t like the .40, spent a lot of time and effort disparaging it even. Then I finally got a good one, and now carry one daily, replacing the one that changed my mind with an even better one.
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I’m not sure where your getting your information on Col Coopers load
The load developed in 1983 and used a 200-grain jacketed truncated-cone bullet. The muzzle velocity was 1,200 fps, with 635 foot-pounds muzzle energy. This load had a working pressure of 37,000 psi with a maximum pressure of 44,400 psi.
The 180gr HP was also around 1200fps. The 170 was faster. -
Excuse the rambling in advance. Working while “writing” this.
The high velocity load was the way Norma made it, with some consultation with Dornaus and Dixon.
Cooper had the concept of the cartridge at a lower, more controllable level. Still flatter shooting than the .45/230/830 package.
Where did this information come from?
Guns and Ammo magazine.
Cooper’s Corner, as well as articles about the .40 G&A developed by Whit Collins who also was in the development stage for the 10mm.
Those G&A magazines were victims of the last moving purge, but I may still have some comments by Cooper in another publication or two. Will have a look.
I was an early adopter of the 10mm, post-Bren.
Had a 7000 range serialed Delta, it was good but needed help to hold up to the “hot” Norma loads, still have some around here somewhere.Anyways, also had an AMT/IAI Javalina, the 7” 10mm. Talk about a laser, once it was rebuilt for the 10 pressure rather than the rather sedate .45, you really didn’t have to think about holdover out quite a ways.
Funny thing about the 10, going heavy with the bullet is ok, but when you go the other way, the 135, 150 and 155gr bullets, you get results that are not expected.
The Cor-Bon 135/1400 and 150/1325 loads proved themselves in deer and other critters to be more effective than most of the heavier loads/bullets available, with the exception being the Win Silvertip 175/1200.
Honestly, they bettered the .357 Mag 125/1400’ish load by a little, and we know how well that works. Personally I felt like the 10 was a little better than my favorite wheelgun choice, the .41 Mag. The lighter bullets gave it more of the explosive hammer of Thor effect. Could never get a light enough .41 bullet to really compare them at that level.
And with the .41 I also ended up duplicating the “Police” load 210/1000, for most of my uses, including taking an elk with it.I have been considering building another 1911 for me to actually keep this time. But making it a swap top, .45 of course, but a second slide in 10mm that also has a .40 barrel fit to it.
You can fire the .40’s through the 10, but it’s not a great idea, between the possibility of the extractor not holding the case in place and getting a misfire, and more importantly the carbon ring that you get like when you fire the .38 Special in a .357 Mag chamber. Fire a couple of Magnums after a bunch of .38’s and the ring is locked there fairly well. One Smith I worked on literally had the carbon ring create an annular ring in the chambers from the pressure.
Don’t want that in the 10mm barrel.-
Here’s the history including the Norma
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Yes, the history is correct and repeatedly fact checked.
That doesn’t mean that Cooper hadn’t originally intended for a .40/200/1000 package. What happened when the concept left his hands is another thing.
You will note that Cooper eventually changed to a 1100 fps muzzle velocity so that the bullet was still hitting @1000 at 75-100y.
Great book you might want to read.
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Yeah we ran 50 of the 40 then pulled it apart looking for the ring common in revolvers. It wasn’t there. We staggered the rounds in the mag and had zero issues.
Im not necessarily recommending it but stating that it can be done from a preparedness standpoint.The data I posted is the data on the 10mm. It easy to verify.
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Well crud went to find the book, still looking.
But here’s a couple of articles that go into what I was saying.
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://www.nstic.us/handgun-ammo/best-10mm-ammo-for-hunting/</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://mssblog.com/2019/02/21/handguns-10-minutes-of-10mm-history/</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/jeff-cooper-on-40-handguns/</span></p> -
Springfield has a new 10mm as does SIG now for those interested.
The S&W appears to be plagued by issues especially with true 10mm loadings. Another case of manufacturers building weak guns for manufacturers making weak ammo.
Folks need to stop settling for what’s there and demand to get what they paid for. Stop letting weak wristed FBI agents, range fudds and cheap suckers ruin the caliber. -
My 10mm G40 with WML new holster for when I hunt in coveralls or have a full backpack
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