October 26, 2021 at 8:01 am #41730
October 26, 2021 at 9:19 am #41737
Its a start , but there are still too many trigger happy guys out there , that are either too eager to pull their weapon , or too scared to be in that job , and pull a pistol when its not appropriate . One thing that would help , is better screening of veterans into LE . What I mean by that , is we are starting to see too many screwed up guys , going right from the military , into the police force . Some doing so , because they know they have issues , and being a cop gives them great protection , that would otherwise send anyone else to prison . I would have something like , if a person is diagnosed with PTSD or self proclaims PTSD , then they are permanently disqualified from entering LE . This is a start , but the trust from the public has already been lost . The damage is deep . But it is a start . Perhaps another step is to get rid of qualified immunity , for the next ten years . Also , make any guilty parties , pay a portion of any law suits lost by the city / department , out of their own pockets . Instead of any loses being paid out of tax payer money …………………….that doesn’t teach the city or the individual anything , if it doesnt hit them in their own pocket book . Some people are slow learners , if they know what it could cost them , they might think twice about doing certain things , or leave the profession , which can only help the profession in the long run . Get the right people doing it , its an honorable job , right now , its a train wreck . In general , the aggression needs to be taken down a few notches ………….stop putting hands on people so much . Deescalate , instead of nursing a bruised ego , because a FREE MAN has a challenge to their supposed authority .
October 26, 2021 at 12:43 pm #41744
Awesome I’ve got questions since you’ve got answers!
So PTSD isn’t treatable, manageable or curable? Is that Are you talking all PTSD or just military? Are we talking TBIs or someone who distrusts when they see a random box on the side of the road or where they’ve dug and laid pipe under an intersection that somehow prevents you from being a good officer? Does the anxiety from PTSD cause you to be able to fight and win or not preform at all?
October 28, 2021 at 4:05 am #41782
Wish I was 20 again …………………I knew it ALL back then lol .
October 28, 2021 at 4:26 am #41783
Thats the problem with the term ………….its too broad . From the military ? Absolutely ! they can look for another career ( which they should have been scoping out when they were in ) Dont put anybody with aggression , anger , or other mental issues in any position of power . Too risky for a free society . If you are stupid enough to CLAIM PTSD , then you are by your own admission , mentally unfit for a position of power over another citizen . Claiming it , in order to benefit in some way , or to avoid having to obey a rule or law should have consequences also . One , not being eligible for any position of authority . I see too many people using it as an excuse to get away with behaviors , or not to obey certain rules .
October 28, 2021 at 7:19 am #41785
PTSD is complex. That’s why the VA screwed everyone up at the start by simply prescribing drugs.
The lack of understanding is in fact why you are correct that some do fall back on it to get away with things. I’ll not deny that. It pisses me off when they do. But until it is understood nothing will change. You just lumped it all into one category as do most.
I can tell you from when I separated that I didn’t hunt them down they hunted me down. You go through a program and they recruit but even ones I never attended were all over me calling me constantly. Perhaps that is what you’d rather change. Instead of the person look at the cause. They actively recruit them because no one else will do the job. Ask anyone how to do a cops or corrections job and they will speak endlessly. Ask them to do it and listen to all the excuses.
The recruiters play into Maslows hierarchy in that outside of air, water etc a persons number one one desire is a sense of belonging. Separation from the military is difficult so along comes a place that want you and has actually seeked you out feels good.
I myself didn’t go that route. I was determined to live among my people and find work. That was a mistake. I should have gone to those that wanted me.
What most think is PTSD that makes the officers aggressive enough to win is misguided. Skills and experience is what accomplishes that. They are able to get through the OODA much quicker than even most normal criminals who are quicker than regular folks that work in safe jobs.
What you view as unacceptable is your societal standards you were taught to live by. Those are usually stricter than even the law. Your belief that a confrontation has to go down a certain way. If you had a negative experience it’s because you weren’t ready for what showed up. Even cops have trouble in corrections at times because of how things go and the lack of tools given. Those who serve in the guard and deploy have to “catch up” upon arrival because your mind in still in the land of the big PX.
Regular person gets in an argument it’s verbal then they might bow up then more verbal then eventually might go into physical. Even once it goes physical it might just be belly bumping or pushing. They believe size matters and consider little else. They go back and forth and that might last as long as half an hour.
People who work in jobs where others try and kill them will not go back and forth. It goes up or disengages. The end. They will use all tools at those disposal without hesitation.
Size plays into it at times but strength and skills rule. There are but three things that matter in the moment.
October 28, 2021 at 11:15 am #41790
What funny is you and I want the same thing. I want standards, screening and real training. Where we differ is blanket statements.
There is zero mental screening in many places. There is laughable training in many places. There are little to no standards because “diversity is our strength “ that’s been carried to a ridiculous level. Even at the fed level there is zero consistency in hiring practices and training. FLETCC is vastly different per agency.
This is also the argument of national police desires which is why you have to be careful of who you choose when approaching it. Do not fall for it.
October 29, 2021 at 10:15 am #41801
Even in the Marines, I knew more than a few guys who should not be allowed near weapons.
October 26, 2021 at 12:04 pm #41743
A policy that (A) doesn’t actually work. Research onion fields shootout (B) is unobtainable in a firefight.
(C)They cite a 2004 Israeli study that is no longer in effect because it didn’t work.
(D)Then they state “It would never be required policy, he added.” because he knows all these things.
So basically a talking head administrator who doesn’t actually do anything except change wording but hey good job jumping on it.
October 26, 2021 at 1:51 pm #41748namelusParticipant
Um being in 2 way gun range at any point in your life and you realize the utter buffoonery of this statement from an arm chair warrior who thinks it’s like call of duty and you can aim to incapacitate.
In ACTUAL COMBAT you want to live and only way is run or eliminate the source. Sometimes you can incapacitate but once violence (shooting/knife) happens more than likely a fatal outcome for one or more parties involved.
I agree with better descalation techniques should be used how to implement that’s another whole bag of shit.
For PTSD being a cop will give you that, hopefully not as bad as combat. Something are assasin grief stalks you till you are weak and attacks, some things can NEVER be un heard,un smelt or un seen.
For PTSD look post ww1/2 the shell shocked where still.part of society, what changed?
October 27, 2021 at 7:08 am #41756
What changed ? The expectations of what masculinity / being a man is supposed to be . They didnt have the neediness that there is today , because they were expected by society to suck it up , and move on . Fair ? No , but thats what they did . Another factor is they WON . That is important , even critical psychologically . They had something to show for it , people today do not . They have been robbed of victory for the sacrifice . Mentally , thats huge .What I see a lot today , are these guys using PTSD as an excuse to get away with shit . They dont belong in a position of power .
October 26, 2021 at 6:25 pm #41751
What’s being setup is a national police force. Let crime get out of hand by ignoring it, actually promoting it, no bail and other “reforms” (like this silliness of shooting limbs in a gunfight) while systematically dismantling the police that are in place then swoop in to save the day with a national police force just like they did with TSA that only they control.
You just think it’s bad now. Just wait. Covid passports won’t be anything bad like what’s coming.
Best quit thinking these folks are on your side in helping. They are helping alright. Helping themselves
October 26, 2021 at 8:59 pm #41752BarrensHomeyParticipant
What role do you think 1,500,000 military aged border jumping illegals can play in this ongoing parade of destruction? By the way, what are they doing right now, and where are they? In death squad training camps dispersed around flyover country? Do we have any doubt they will take it all the way?
October 26, 2021 at 10:22 pm #41754
Replacements for those that won’t fall into line because they came in looking to be taken care of by the government and they’ll do anything including a National police. Who better to do it than someone with no loyalty and no ties to Joe public? They were on the receiving end there but can be on the other side here.
I don’t care what group it is or from what country just look at the sheer number of fighting aged males in each one. Look at the new clothes, fresh cash and fed bellies as they cross. That’s all by design
October 27, 2021 at 7:16 am #41758
I would create a paramilitary organization , like the Waffen SS , as a buffer between the citizen and the cops . Instead of being devout Nazi’s , they are devout Constitutionalists .
October 27, 2021 at 8:16 am #41762
So John’s beating his wife while holding a pistol and your paramilitary group responds first and does what? Then the cops show up and your group does what? Help me out because I’m not seeing what they are going to do.
Then outline what changes when John turns out to be one of your constitutionalist.
October 27, 2021 at 8:55 am #41764
One of our local departments has hired a qualified lady to come out and do interventions. As a former officer I’m all for it as long as the situation doesn’t escalate. Not only does it help de-escalate it can get to the root of the issue to fix it long term so officers aren’t continually responding to that place.
Where I’m having trouble seeing your vision is what exactly a constitutionalist is going to do to help resolve the matter.
October 27, 2021 at 12:28 pm #41767
I would be very interested to see if that works (a de-esclation person).
When in EMS, been on calls where a LEO was not really needed, but you never know when that 68 year old dementia patient just might decide to go all Mike Tyson with the punches and biting.
October 27, 2021 at 12:41 pm #41768
So far it’s worked ok. She wears a vest and they try and cover as best possible. There will be successes and failures but at least an attempt is made. Like I’ve stayed before I’m not against change or reforms IF they are real.
I’ve used family and friends in situations that allowed and weren’t dynamic. In corrections when we can contain the scene we use teachers, clergy and psychologists as long as it allows.
No situation is going to be exactly the same and no fix is going to work all the time.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.