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The only “new age” beliefs listed in the article are astrology and spiritual energy in trees and mountains. I wish the article had went into more depth about what these beliefs are and maybe add some speculation as to why the number of people that hold these beliefs are growing beyond “ the don’t have orthodox religion”. There are a few things I’ve seen all other the place that you probably wouldn’t have seen even 10 or 15 years ago: buddas, crystals (for “healing”, those mandala rugs or hangings. I think many people have no idea where these things come from or what they mean. They may think nothing more of them than as decorations.
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AnonymousI’m okay with this 😉 I grew up in an Italian Pagan household. More people out there being open-minded is my kinda world.
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I’m pleased that people are finding comfort and direction. Most of the New Age religions with which I am familiar are very strict on one point: not harming others. So if it improves the ethics of our society, I’m all for it.
The thing that worries me much more is the young people who seem to have no sense whatsoever of moral direction. That doesn’t have to come from a religion of course, but it sure needs to come from somewhere.
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Anonymous@daisy No, moral values don’t necessary have to come from religion, but for 4,000 years now that’s where they have come from. Moral teaching can come from parents and family but what if they were never tought moral values? That leaves you with public school and political correctness or street gangs! Look how that has turned out. Religion has been around for 4,000 years precisely because it has tought us moral values that we have not received from other places. Ok, religion is not perfect either, but it’s vastly better than whatever is in 2nd place for teaching moral values.
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Anonymous@no-money, I have to disagree with your statement. First of all, religion has been around for more than 4000 years. Maybe that’s the time frame for the Judaeo-Christian religion but not for religion in general. Second, saying that religion is a way to teach moral it is a stretch. Most of what you call moral is rule of law based on fear. A moral person doesn’t steal because he doesn’t want have is property stolen, not because it is one of the commandments and he fears a god revenge. Morality comas from within the person, not from some belief. Prove is so many religious people acted in evil way throughout history.
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All better than Islam . If my god tells me its OK to kill another person , its time to find another god . Just Sayin
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Anonymous@DF, Yes, of course I’m talking about the Judaeo-Christian religions.
saying that religion is a way to teach moral it is a stretch
A stretch? Where else are you going to learn about moral values but religion or family?
Adultery is certainly immoral, even if widely practiced, but its not against any law I know of in the US. There are other examples.
Most people follow moral behavior because they were tought that was the correct behavior, not because they are threatened punishment in the afterlife.
We are not born with moral behavior, it is not instinctive. You have to learn it somewhere. Not all people are capable of learning what is moral and right and what is not without outside help. Just look at what monsters many children are, even into high school. Why do you think many of today’s college kinds follow that leftist crap? Its because they didn’t learn better earlier in life.
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Anonymous@tolik, do you realize that the god of Islam is the same one Christian and Jews? The difference come in the interpretation that the various prophets have of its words and, as far as I know, that good never intervenes to prove one or the other wrong.
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DF, did you just make that up yourself? The imposter allah is the same god as is Yahweh? SMH
Reading some of these comments is proof enough that too many are not only spiritually ignorant, but dangerously so. Is there any wonder as to why Yahweh has removed His hedge of protection from around this nation!
Morals without Godly spiritualism. Now, THAT’S funny!
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Anonymous@no-money, when I talk of rule of law based on fear, I am not talking of human laws but what believes think are god’s laws. The 10 Commandments are mostly basic rules that are enforced by fear of an afterlife punishment or, in the more modern form, by the lack of the reward of living eternally in the presence of god.
I am not going to try to change your mind because you’re free to think whatever you want, but I just want to make you understand that people who are not religious or do not believe in god, find your statement that morality comes from religion offensive because it implies that they are not moral. I think of myself as a moral person and act as such. I find my moral values within myself and observing other people behavior not from a book. I could use the same word you used to define leftist ideologies for religions, but I do not. I am not thinking of myself as someone who is above others nor I think that my thoughts and ideas are more worthy then others’ thoughts and ideas.
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Anonymous@DF, it sounds like you think that I am saying that moral values can only come from religion, I’m not.
people who are not religious or do not believe in god, find your statement that morality comes from religion offensive
Wow, people get offended by that? Well, I guess the left with their political correctness sensitivity are not the only people that get easily offended.
I know that I said something that really made Daisy mad several days ago and I didn’t understand that either. Daisy has said that she is a libertarian. Is it libertarians that I am offending with my beliefs? I don’t understand.
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Anonymous@james-mitchner, no, I have not made it up. All three religions share the god of Abraham. Jesus is considered one of the major prophets by Islam, might be the second after Mohamed.
I am an atheist but have never raped a child as many priest and minister had.
Henry the 8th, founder of the Anglican church, did so to bring the riches of the church to the crown.
Popes waged many wars directly and indirectly that saw thousands killed.
Atheists did not burn women at the stake after accusing them to be witches.
The Indians would surely disagree that god led the leader of this nation in their extermination.
Should I continue, or is this enough?-
We are all ignorant about something. Unfortunately too many, especially the young are becoming a tabloid society. Its simpler and less effort to just pick up a tabloid and read an article about some Hollywood starlet who has discovered her spirituality by worshipping stone, trees, and Mother Ghia than to spend time and effort on researching and developing a spiritual foundation of their own via Scriptures.
You are correct, DF, regarding the murderous behaviors of various men over the centuries who called themselves Christians and who claimed to be doing God’s work. But God had nothing to do with it. They did it on their own, likely to assume more power and exert control over their populations. The tool they chose was “religion”. There is a LOT about Christianity even today that is not Biblical, but heavily influenced by rout pagan ritual beginning with the Imperial Roman Empire and Emperor Constantine and added to over the years. It is not the spiritualism established by Jesus, and I doubt Jesus would recognize most of it. A true follower of Jesus does not require an intercessor such as a priest, reverend, or pastor… none of which is Biblical. A true follower are their own priests.
What you believe is your business. I don’t have a problem with it and neither should anyone else. I think atheism is its own religion. I would never act to stop you from practicing your’s. I just wish atheists would stop attempting to remove mine.
As for this “new age” stuff, there is nothing new about it. Its the same pagan beliefs thats been around from the beginning. But the growing acceptance clearly demonstrates a falling away from what is foundational Christian beliefs as people are blown around like leaves in the wind by every latest spiritual fad in search of SOMETHING.
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This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by
James Mitchner.
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This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by
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Anonymous@no-money, if I say that religious people are F morons who cannot think for themselves, so they have to rely on a fantasy book, mythical gods, and priest and minister to lead them through life, do you think a religion person would be offended?
That leaves you with public school and political correctness or street gangs! Look how that has turned out. Religion has been around for 4,000 years precisely because it has tought us moral values that we have not received from other places
That reads to me as that religion is the only source of moral values. And not only religion. Your religion.
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So….this is the reason I was kinda thinking we should leave religion out of our discussions here.
All of our belief systems are deeply held.
We study and learn. We compare things. We go with what our hearts tell us is true and right. And when we do this? We sometimes get different answers from one another.
I didn’t get “really mad” about what was said in the thread recently. I deleted comments that belittled the beliefs of the poster because that was the right thing to do as the moderator of the forum. I seriously doubt that it was intentional, as I know you to be a kindhearted person. But beliefs that are non-Christian or completely non-religious are just as valid to the person holding those beliefs.
This forum is not going to turn into yet another place where ONLY conservative Christians feel welcome. There are so many wonderful people out there looking for a place to meet other people who are into survival and self-reliance and not all of them will believe the same way that each of you believes. Insulting each other doesn’t build community.
Let’s try not to argue about religion because I assure you, nobody is suddenly going to change his or her mind because of something a person said on a forum. So let’s be cool, okay?
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“This forum is not going to turn into yet another place where ONLY conservative Christians feel welcome.”
THANK YOU from an agnostic raised by atheists who has never set foot in a church or self-identified as anything but “non-denominational.”
Seems many people never heard the admonition to avoid discussing politics, motherhood, or religion. It’s a wise one.
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Politics can’t be avoided as it has an absolute effect on how the people in power , attempt , or plan to run your life , usually against your will . Religion as far as ” who is right ” should be avoided . However , it is still relevant as it can be a valid tool for a person in adversity . Read a few POW stories , about how they mentally got through all the torture , and privations , and religion will pop up , many times . Don’t believe in anything ? move on to another thread that is more neutral for your tastes . Don’t like cigarettes ? then don’t smoke . Preaching works both ways . I agree , nobody needs to get butt hurt on this forum . Run your life the way you see fit , and leave it at that . I have my religious beliefs , do I go to church ? No . Its something very personal to me , and others are not invited . Warning well taken .
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AnonymousWhile the discussion seem to be about religion, to me it is really between open and close minded views of things. I feel that so many people have a “religious” attitude toward facts of life that makes them blind to the actual facts. I put religious in quotation because it is not just about god, it is believing in something just because you choose to believe in it, and expect that everyone else do the same. This is the attitude of Christians who believe their ideas to be superior, or the leftist who believe there is no gender distinction, or the military people who thing they have all the answers for what is going to come.
I really believe that when SHTF, a very open mind will be needed to survive. A mind that can accept others as fellow survivors, that see others as assets, that can adapt to new situations quickly. People who will anchor themselves to their beliefs will have hard times because things will not go as planned and adaptability will be the winning resource.
So, do discussion about religion belong on the forum? I think so as long as they are kept withing civil limits and respectful of each others. I started reading this thread to learn about “New Age” beliefs. Learn, not judge.
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AnonymousI’ll leave you with this thought. Just because I don’t understand quantum mechanics and am incapable of comprehending the mathematics involved doesn’t make quantum mechanics untrue. Just because I can’t see subatomic particles doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.
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AnonymousI’ll just respect @daisy‘s request and I will not reply.
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Well said .
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Whoa, ok, so I guess I am the only one who picked up on the old, dependable religion voting block maybe growing smaller.
I thought that observation and the OP article was apt this close to the mid-terms.
That is why I thought it was news.-
This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by
Crow Bar.
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This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by
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No worries, Crow Bar. I think it is an interesting conversation.
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Anonymous@james-mitchner, thanks for the thoughtful and civil post.
I cannot speak for anyone other than myself, but a true atheist will not take your religion away unless you try to impose it on them. I think so because a true atheist comes to his belief on his own path, not just joining the last trend. The one trying to remove religion from life are people who do not believe in god but who belong to some other sort of godless religion.
You might disagree with my interpretation but I believe that a religion is normally the belief in the teaching of some man. Traditionally it has been some godly inspired man but, since the godly inspiration can be a matter of dispute, I just say man. Based on that, I think that a devote Christian is not different from a devote Marxist in how they believe. They differ in what they believe. From the point of view of someone who is neither, I see no difference between the leftist trying to stop me from getting into a store they don’t like vs the Christian shouting in my face to accept Jesus Christ or burn in hell for eternity. Yes, both happened.
Superficiality in accepting a religion or philosophy is common to “new age” beliefs as it is in more traditional ones. Is there really any difference between someone getting into some cult because a celebrity did so, or someone who call himself a Christian just because he follows what a good looking millionaire pastor says? Or between a young person who become a leftist to fit in or the person who goes to church because he is expected to do so in the community he lives in? Superficiality is the disease of the century. It manifests in everyday life in many forms. People read a book about a subject and believe it tells all there is to know about it. People read newspaper and believe everything in it just because it’s their newspaper. Same said for politicians, self-named experts, or celebrity of sort.
I think everyone has to find his way in life following his own path. If your path is the Bible, fine, if for someone else it’s feeling the vibe of planet Earths, fine as well. The point is not the path taken but where that path lead us. If that’s a person who respects others, is open to other’s thoughts and ideas, and positively contribute to society we can all live peacefully together.
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You can be sure, DF, that I’ll never be one to shout in your face. Its a personal journey. I’ve found mine and you appear to have found your’s.
There’s not any difference in the examples you give regarding superficiality. Organized religion and it’s own superficiality has done more to damage Christianity than any opposing force. Sad.
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AnonymousCrow Bar, I read what you did, and took it the way it was meant to be taken. I haven’t replied because I didn’t want to let other’s views influence what I have to say since I am one of those so-called new agers. Although my eyes glazed over at the very shallow description they used.
I believe in living and letting others live, in being happy with who you are, and who you are with, without being lorded over by what others say is right or wrong according to a book written to control the masses with fear and intimidation. I vote accordingly.
If someones belief stops them from baking a cake because of the color of someones skin or their life choices, good for them. But do the rest of us a favor and make a pretty little notice on your business door letting us know so we can choose to walk in or walk past your door to the next bakery to make our order. I personally don’t want something flavored with hostility, hate, and condemnation, kind of takes away the sweetness 🙂
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AnonymousI actually have a lot of friends who are from diverse beliefs. We all get along wonderfully. It’s nice and refreshing to me that we can all believe differently and still get along quite well. (And yes, those friends also include Atheists.) 🙂
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I have to agree with @nomoney in that it disturbs me to see that the new arbiters of morality are the public school system, universities, the talking heads of mainstream media, and Hollywood. It seems to me that a lot of people with no conventional religion have become de facto members of a new religion, what I call the Religion of Social Justice or the Religion of Political Correctness. These people are obviously hungry for spiritual guidance, and are getting it from the new priests: the social justice warriors and political correctness arbiters, grade school and high school teachers, college professors, the talking heads on TV, celebrities, pop stars, etc. People are looking to movies and TV shows and Twitter for moral guidance. This is what the actors on Glee did, so that must be the morally correct thing to do.
Religion fills a need and a void in people, or we wouldn’t see evidence of religion spanning the world over thousands of years. I am sorry though that the new, all-encompassing, all-conquering religion is the the Religion of Social Justice & Political Correctness. I am sorry to see that the new priest class consists of your child’s public school teacher, your teen’s college professor, and TV personalities such as Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, Samantha Bee, the cast of Saturday Night Live, etc.
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Totally agree, MM. Very accurate and on target.
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I am a Pagan that was born a Christian. I’m not going to knock Religion as it is the individual’s own choice as to how and what they want to believe in this life. (Free choice)
Humans (in one form or another) have been on this earth for over a million years. Nature based beliefs are the oldest belief systems on earth, as there were no “organized religions” like Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. back then. “Religions” all started somewhere with someone needing/seeking some Spiritual guidance or comfort. They created ways to make that connection easier to attain, be it with crystals and herbs, mandalas, crosses, Star of David, writings, prayers, spells, etc.. Others saw what someone was doing and wanted to “join” in hopes of maybe making their life better as well by appealing to the Creator for guidance and connection.
Spirituality is a personal wish to be closer to the Creator and all of what the Creator made. For Pagans, spells are ritualistic prayers using the Creator’s “helpers” (burning herbs and using crystals) to help focus our intent on the prayer and send the prayer to the Creator. There is more to the ceremony/ritual than that, but even that is up to the individual as to how it is done. -
Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one’s view and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one’s valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.
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@molly-malone,
Great post.
Taylor Swift tweeted her support for some candidate. Something like 40,000 people registered to vote as a result. -
@TTT,
That was great!
I was beginning to think, “man, that is a serious run-on sentence!”
Then I got to the end and got the laugh! -
@Crow Bar, though it is a good idea to post that here. 🙂
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With religion, we have a few problems.
You have the most argued over book ever written, The Bible.
You have everyone in the world having an opinion on religion, for or against.
Then you have religions:
– In the dessert, has a god above.
– In the Amazon, god in the forest.
– On islands, god in the ocean.
etc.The truth of the matter is that all the arguments / debates / points of view for and against, above, ocean or in the forest, will only be proven / disproved after you die, at a time when it is too late, we are told, to have a change of heart of how we lived out lives, if you believe their is life after death, or not in re-incarnation, another two contentious points.
So it seems to me we can argue till death do us part. 🙂
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On the matter of people with tendencies to be generally good, I am not so sure it is that simple.
Our environment in which we grow up dictates our predispositions. Like children who grew up with say wolves since a very early age, they even have certain values the pack instilled, learnt the hard way.
Little kids are quite vicious. If they are left to be with no adult interference it would be interesting to see where it ends up. Problem is we cannot do that, it will scar them for life.
Humans, all living organism actually, learn from pain.
Interesting test I do, with parents who refuse to smack their kids on matters of life and death, I will ask parents with little kids, can I take your child to the other side of the freeway and walk away? Without fail, No Never!
Ask the same from a non-white parent. Invariably they say, yes, they will be safe.
What is the difference?
White kids step off the pavement in front of a car, parent/s will explain why not, maybe a light smack on the bum, screaming if the parent/s got really scared. Have to repeat the lesson and hope the kid learns fast enough. But they don’t trust their kids.Non-white kids here get whacked silly. Either the parent/s shows them the pain … or the car does. They learn very quickly how dangerous roads are and the parents can trust their kids to be safe.
Overall society has to have dire consequences of individuals actions to keep the majority of people in line, not religion nor upbringing, punishment under the Law makes us toe the line. Religion has the same, punishment for ones incorrect actions.
Which came first, the Laws or Religion, ito punishment?
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Anonymous@molly-malone, I certainly agree that today people rely for guidance on people who have no moral standing to guide anyone, not even a dog to the park. What we have to ask is how we got here and if there is a way out.
I think that what we see now is the fruit of a tree that was seeded long ago, probably in the period after World War 2, the period that many consider the Golden Age of America. That’s when consumerism started. When marketing became the tool to sale goods and ideas. When people started to want more than they needed and, to get it, they began to put aside what was really important. Dad’s were home less because they worked longer hours and the move to suburbia meant more hours commuting. Then one job wasn’t enough to pay for everything so, mom got a job too. As a consequence of this choice, sold as a win for women independence, the duties of parents were delegated to schools, after school programs, and television. As those children grew older and had children of their own, they repeated and amplified the errors committed by their parents. Not only, but they were even more susceptible to look for advice on how to live their life from third parties since they had not parents they could rely on. If mom could not tell them how to rise their children, there was a book available for sure that told them what to do, written by some PhD. If you have a PhD you must know, right?
In recent years, new technologies such as internet, smart phones, tablets made access to dubious information more available and easier to spread. While in the past an expert was someone who did things, now everyone who gets a few like on Facebook becomes an expert. People without knowledge crown the kings and queens of wisdom. The same way that people are sold that a new model of microwave is better than the last one, they are sold new ideologies and they reject all that is old. Change, growth and new are paramount and the wisdom contained in millennia of history is tossed in the garbage.
We have created a world without leaders, without morals and without direction. The human race has devolved into something that is hard to define, not a society anymore. We are all responsible for it, either for being actors in that change for the worse or for being passive observers. We did it when we voted for the lesser evil. We did it when we worked overtime rather than play with our children. We did it when we supported government policies that made the country less.
There is a way out? I’d like to be optimistic but I see today world as an old house: roof licking, foundations crumbling. The wrecking ball is the only tool that’s left. Rebuilding will come later.
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