December 29, 2018 at 11:43 am #6928James MitchnerParticipant
When we preppers discuss subjects like home security, most often we think of burglars, thieves, home invasions, even hungry neighbors. Mostly its some category of what we would call the “criminal element”. Maybe its time to expand what we are concerned over regarding home security and add another type of home invader and their….. our own government.
Certainly everyone should be at least vaguely familiar with “Red Flag’ laws that are appearing in some cities, counties, and even states where anyone can anonymously phone the police claiming you are a safety risk and the police send a detail you your door demanding you hand over all your firearms. Some politicians even want to expand the law to include third-parties. So, if your nephew, who you only see once a year at Christmas, makes a threat and says he’s going to obtain a firearm from your house, they come take YOUR guns! Your right to due process is ignored, as is your right to face your accuser. I view it as a home invasion by thieves, personally. You may view it differently, I have no way of knowing. But its no different than anything practiced in some third-world communist country. Hence the title, “Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket”. And, it doesn’t apply to just guns.
President Obama signed a new law in 2012 that allows the government to completely take over all commerce, transportation, manufacturing, and distribution as the government deems necessary should some national emergency be declared. They also are allowed under that law to confiscate from private citizens food stocks, equipment, and any other supplies they think is necessary, supposedly to be stockpiled and re-distributed as they see fit.
Hence, the practice of dispersion is our friend. You may get some eggs broken, but not all of them at once.
- This topic was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by James Mitchner.
December 29, 2018 at 1:51 pm #6933
This is one of those laws that are double edged.
Have a local “celebrity” who is making waves? Many wildlife laws allow the warrantless search for and inspection of game animals. Got a spare chunk of fresh hide? Call in the license plate anonymously for spotlighting, just make sure its a time that they are out and about.
Then call them in under the “Red Flag” laws, threatening the wildlife guys, etc.
“Local activist arrested for suspicion of poaching”,
“Local activist arrested for terroristic threats”…
December 29, 2018 at 2:14 pm #6934
But diversifying your storage locations is just good planning, not just .gov intrusion but weather incidents, animal/pest infestation, etc.
I had long kept a spare toy or two in deep storage until our move here, just don’t have a good location figured out yet. And no friends or family close enough for gear/food stores.
But then theres the question, if it gets so bad that the .gov starts coming door to door for anything, will you have the time to move your stuff elsewhere? It is unlikely that they could hit everyone at the same time so nobody could get the word out, so we would have more than a little warning.
The neighbors come a calling, entirety different situation. And your best defense may be a tight knit community.
December 29, 2018 at 3:10 pm #6938Anonymous
I 100% agree and suggest that everyone learns to forage and hunt, using both up to date and primitive means. This includes learning self defense and how to turn the abstracts of your environment into useful items. Being a Macguyver will be of greater value than a firearm anyday. Standing your ground may not be a realistic option.
Knowledge is the true power, my friends.
December 29, 2018 at 11:13 pm #6964
We all need also to know what the laws are about in each state as well. No one knows we have any guns other than my daughter and son in law. They are well hidden.. My daughter, oldest granddaughter, myself and my son in law all went to a class for our concealed weapons permit. My son in law carries all the time but I don’t always carry mine. Depends on where I am going. Other than that know one knows we have them. I to need to find some land or someway of moving food storage to a different location. We already have some at daughter’s house but she has to be careful as well. We were looking into renting an air conditioned storage unit. Just not sure about that idea though. Not to hype on paying a monthly fee, even for the smallest unit. We are working on something though. Just not sure what as of yet.
December 29, 2018 at 11:24 pm #6965Susan LOVINGParticipant
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Little Sister, do not put preps in a storage unit. The government has also made this a location to conforscation, to re-distribute to somebody, probably their own selves.</p>
December 30, 2018 at 2:58 pm #7006
Wow, I didn’t know that so that is out. Didn’t want to make that monthly fee anyway. Thank you Susan for that info. I am going to have to figure something out. have heard of people using old freezers after removing the freon, and burying them in the ground. Would have a PVC pipe attached for air I presume as I am not sure of that yet. But they fill it up with food and use it like a root cellar. This is one of the options I am looking into. Thinking behind the garden shed to do something like that. Out of site and buried. So can’t be easily found.
December 30, 2018 at 10:59 pm #7033
Hunting and foraging is an interesting concept but what happens when 12,000 people start doing the same thing? Or 100,000? Or more?
Not quite 100 years ago the game population was put in a serious hurt. What happens tomorrow when even more people try and harvest the same critters.
Or the same cattail beds? Fishing holes? Berry patches?
We all would like to think that we are the only ones who know about “X”, or may go there, but reality is different.
A friend was growing some tomatoes. In his own back yard. Right about the time they were almost ripe, poof, gone. Other people were watching them also.
And you just can’t start plugging people for ‘mater theft. Doesn’t sit well with the neighbors.
Unless everyone is on the same page, it just ain’t gonna work.
December 30, 2018 at 11:20 pm #7034Anonymous
Whirlibird, you can only eat what’s available. There are no magic wands. If you have more knowledge than the average person it’ll take you further. If the competition is too strong, you’ll need to move around until you find a place that works for.
We do not populate every inch of this planet and there are many great techniques and even more being developed to make the most out what’s available to grow plenty of food for everyone. Of course, we don’t need to to get by individually.
An obvious answer to your question is self-defense and defending what you claim as yours. There are many dimensions to view the many issues we will face in SHTF and you seem to choose to view the “why bother” dimension. I won’t join you there.
December 31, 2018 at 9:08 am #7047
Why bother? Not even close.
What I was saying is don’t make plans expecting to find “X”.
Those critters may already be in someone else’s stew pot. Those wild edibles you saw in the ditch may have been hit with weed killer by the utility company.
The deer and the cattail are the bonuses, a welcome addition to the larder but not something that you can depend upon. Especially after a crash, if simply because everyone else has the same idea.
How many times have we read “I’m heading for the hills and gonna live off the land” or similar on forums, in conversations, etc? If even a tenth of these people make it to the hills and start plugging everything in sight, how much game will remain? In my town of 12k, if everyone who heard about cat tails went down to the ponds and started harvesting, do you think that they would leave any to grow more?
I can’t depend upon anything that I can’t control, and I can’t control the weather, flooding and droughts for example.
More to come, gotta go work.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Whirlibird.
December 31, 2018 at 10:31 am #7055Anonymous
There will be so many people in “the starving hordes” that domesticated and wild game animals alike will, in most areas of this country, become effectively extinct. If you survive TEOTWAWKI you may never again see a horse, cow, pig, goat, sheep, dog, cat, etc. Most game birds will probably survive, maybe even wild turkeys and some species of wild ducks. Oh, most domesticated animals won’t truly be extinct, but there might be only a few dozen alive in this country in isolated homesteads. In olden times people kept the domesticated animals (they had very few) in the house with them, at least at night. Can you imagine keeping a horse or a couple of cows in the spair bedroom? lol But that’s what its going to take. Can you manage to keep an armed guard alive, awake and alert 24/7 on your chicken coop, barn, garden and farm pond (fish)? Heck, people will steal the seeds out of the gound in your garden at night just so the can plant them theirselves. They may even steal the dirt too, if its really good dirt.
December 31, 2018 at 11:49 am #7059Anonymous
Right Whirlibird, which is why it’s important to diversify. Luckily I grew up in a colder environment and can make life work in a less desirable area than most. I’ll also eat you if I must…lol
January 2, 2019 at 10:42 am #7270
You wouldn’t like me, I’m prickly and hard to eradicate.
February 1, 2019 at 10:01 pm #8721
I am afraid the starving hordes will be taking from our backyard gardens. We already had that problem with our pecan tree. Lost all our pecans to the neighbor that used to live behind us. Got caught red handed. I think I posted on that somewhere on here awhile back. Also another neighbor of mine said her mother came home from work and went out to pick her butterbeans and someone beat her to them. Stripped the vines clean. her garden was fenced in. So lots of problems will arise. As for hunting. I think sooner or later there won’t be anything left to hunt. So meat will become scarce. There will come a time we will have to only eat meat once or twice a week to stretch it. So will need other means of protein like beans, etc. I have been thinking about a way to set up raised beds in our garage if any of this plays out. The dirt would be in the boxes and not all over the floor. And maybe some grow lights in the garage running on solar. Our garage is attached to the house so not sure how that would pan out. Seems bad to have to think about keeping a garden under lock and key. Plus we would be very limited on the amount of food we could grow like that.
February 1, 2019 at 10:11 pm #8723Red CarnationParticipant
@littlesister – protein shake mixes would be an excellent addition to food storage, as Daisy has mentioned on her blog. Yes, meat will be scarce. Beans take up a LOT of water yet make a tasty broth.
Yes, people are already stealing. Someone who worked in a grocery store almost 30 years ago said that 10% of the merchandise was stolen. Can you imagine what the percentage is now? No wonder prices are rising.
February 2, 2019 at 5:59 pm #8745James MitchnerParticipant
February 2, 2019 at 6:19 pm #8749
Bit over a decade ago my job put me in about a hundred grocery stores over three states. Some stores were definitely worse than others for theft. One store near the rez in NM, probably lost close to 40% to theft.
Our local Walmart, a 2 million dollar store suffered around $100k in 2014 in theft losses.
Something to think about.
February 2, 2019 at 9:03 pm #8757woodsrunnerParticipant
What’s rule 7.62 and rule .303?
February 2, 2019 at 10:23 pm #8759
February 3, 2019 at 12:10 am #8765OldMt WomanParticipant
When DH finally got on board years ago, I made a comment: You know, meat might be a “condiment” in a Post Stuff Hits Fan scenario. He looked at me with horror. We’re carnivores. So there are many ways and means but half or more can fail. Not all your eggs in one basket, indeed!
Couple more ideas for carnivores. Rabbits and quail. Both are [mostly] quiet and can be kept indoors with fastidious cage cleaning [which is good compost material]. Easier to hide than a Hereford or even a goat. Goats, chickens/ducks are NOISY.
OldMtWoman ….a little of this way and a little of that way…and keeping all of it quiet!
February 3, 2019 at 12:27 am #8766woodsrunnerParticipant
OldMTWoman- your remark about meat being a condiment and your dh’s reaction hit my funny bone. Too bad it might be all too true. I knew one person who shot and ate the intruder in her garden- a groundhog.
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