EMP or CME

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Whirlibird 2 weeks, 2 days ago.

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  • #23442

    John Park
    Participant

    Whether man made EMP, or naturally occurring Coronal Mass Ejection (solar flare), the idea of the grid going down is a terrifying one.
    My first awareness of the issue was due to “One Second After”, but I try to keep reading. Tonight I asked myself “How long would the grid stay down for?”

    The following report states 4-10 years!
    https://www.ferc.gov/industries/electric/indus-act/reliability/cybersecurity/ferc_executive_summary.pdf

    This is also a good reviews of the situation: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order

    It is terrifying to think I would need to be able to produce food for my family for that long. A few buckets of rice and beans (and other essentials) are crucial to get through the first year – but could I really ramp up production enough to prevent starvation??!!

    So aside from sharing the links above, does anyone have any good links on food production for self sufficiency? I live in the cold northeast and am wondering where I would learn how people managed self sufficiency back in the days before the Civil War.

    Thanks for any advice you can provide.

  • #23447

    Crow Bar
    Keymaster

    Great question John.

    I dont have any links persay, but books.

    Gene Logsdon Small-Scale Grain Raising: An Organic Guide to Growing, Processing, and Using Nutritious Whole Grains for Home Gardeners and Local Farmers, 2nd Edition is really good for growing small plots of gain for a family.

    The Back to Basics books are pretty good.

    I think a lot of it has to do with the soil you have, how much compost you can add, your growing seasons. What naturally can grow in your climate? What container plants can you do?

  • #23450

    anon 411
    Participant

    The estimate is that 90 % of the population will die within one year. Mostly that will be old people, young kids, pregnant women, addicted persons and people who need meds to live. Others will starve, die fighting, freeze, etc.

    The electrical generation and transmission business is complex and fairly people intensive. Fossil fuels for most of those plants and the transportation thereof is also complex and fairly people intensive. A LOT of the people with those skills will die as part of the 90%. Who will be left to do those jobs? Some remaining could be trained to do those jobs, assuming there are enough experienced persons left alive to do so. So, experienced persons and much of the labor will have to come from other countries. English speaking democracies or some invader (armies) from one or more dictator ruled country (China, Russia, etc.)? I would be shocked to learn that those industries have plans to save their existing managers and workers and their families.

    I’d like to see the assumptions on how they will do that, ever, much less in 4-10 years. Maybe they assume most survivors will be relocated to fema camps near surviving renewal energy plants. One thing is for sure, the country will never be like it was.

  • #23453

    Crow Bar
    Keymaster

    Most people will die from a lack of clean water, and other sanitary water related issues. Then everything else.

    If it is a CME of significant level, everyone will be in the same situation regardless of border. The Sun does not pick sides, and the duration could cover the whole globe.

    EMP, there could be collateral damage.

    If a EMP was only aimed at the US, I dont think anyone will be trying to invade. 350million people all losing their minds and the military will be at DEFCON 1/NORAD. Better to take advantage of the situation, while the US trys to deal with the domestic issues, China takes Taiwan back, Russia makes moves where they want, the Mid-East is anyones guess, and I would not rule out North Korea taking advantage of the situation either.

  • #23457

    Littlesister
    Participant

    So much can happen and I hope we don’t have any issues. But like said above it could very well be in the cards. As far as food. I think going back to the days of our great grandparents and beyond on how they put up food for a family. Back in those days they didn’t have air cond. flushing toilets, nor washing machines. Things were done by hand and I am thinking we would have to go back to those days and learn what they did. We have a great deal of no. 10 freeze dried foods that we are going to mix in with our garden stuff that is canned. I am working on canning meats now (but took a break to catch up on other stuff.)  Freezer is loaded and next week I hope to get back to getting it empty. Problem is how long will all this last if we have a failed garden like we did this year. We got some things. Mostly green beans, so that is where the freeze dried foods will come in. I don’t know of any other way to store food for the long term and those in towns with no land to garden will be in a heap of trouble.

    I have read one second after. It is an eye opener. Great book.  I think those that live in country and know how to homestead and have chickens, cows and whatever else on a farm for milk and making butter, having eggs, etc. will be better off than most. I am looking into buying some more freeze dried foods as I can find it on sale. That stuff is not cheap and unless there is another company going out of business like the one I found 6 yrs. ago, it won’t be cheap. We took advantage of those sales, but have not bought much since then.

  • #23905

    John Park
    Participant

    I just wanted to share a pair of links.
    The first is where you can sign up for space weather/CME/solar flare updates – that way if there ever is a G5 storm coming directly at earth, you can get a heads up.
    https://pss.swpc.noaa.gov/LoginWebForm.aspx

    The other is a year old link about foreign nations working on EMP technology:

    Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea working on EMP weapons for devastating attack on US

  • #23928

    Mouse Wizard
    Participant

    The problem as I see it is the nuclear power plants. So many in the eastern half of the US. So many all over Europe. Most all will be safely shut down in the event of a CME, because the staff will be on site and able to deal with getting the generators online (diesels are impervious to CME/EMP, and can be rigged to start after pulling any failed electronic controllers). So that’s not the worry.

    I also don’t worry so much about the spent storage pools. Again, most staff will be on site and people will figure out that 90% of what’s in the pool is cold enough to be pulled and laid on the ground once it becomes clear this is a long term event. What remains will do just fine in the remaining water without the external water cooling system. As long as water is replenished the process can be managed until the remaining rods are cool enough to be left exposed to air. By then there won’t be power to run the equipment to pull them, but the staff will have spaced them out in the pool so they have adequate distance and air circulation. So most plants will wind up safely shut down. Basically, each plant will become a dead zone all to itself, but fairly limited in reach.

    Most.

    Not all.

    Some plants won’t have smart enough, or motivated enough staff, to see that proactively managing the cooling pools is essential for regional safety. Those plants will see cooling pool failures and the resulting fires and smoke will spread lethal plumes downwind. Farmland, cropland, transportation routes, population centers will be depopulated and unusable for centuries.

    Not all.

    Some.

    So here’s the real problem: Which ones will fail? Where will the dead zones occur?

  • #23932

    Crow Bar
    Keymaster

    A good friend of ours used to live next to a nuclear power plant.
    A lot of the neighbors worked at the plant too.
    They are plenty motivated.

  • #23940

    Whirlibird
    Participant

    Book called 200 Chernobyl’s, if you wanna lose a lot of sleep.

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