Overuse of antibiotics 'risks return to dark ages of life-threatening surgery'

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  John Paret 1 month ago.

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  • #1403

    Crow Bar
    Keymaster
  • #1407

    HomesteadingMama
    Participant

    A friend of mine is a microbiologist and hearing him talk about this gives me nightmares! It is truly scary stuff.

    And yet, I have been just as guilty as the next mom for asking for antibiotics for a child’s ear infection because those extra couple of days of sickness are hard to bare. But with a friend to scare the stupid out of me I am getting better about that.

  • #1408

    Anonymous

    I grew up on the pink stuff and now I am allergic to it and all its cousins. I also have eczema so my body has a higher amount of staph, so I have been told. Any infection is extra scary to me! Last time I had a doctor diagnosed infection the script was at $11 a pill, never got it filled and I would hate to know what it runs now.

  • #1409

    Anonymous

    I grew up on the pink stuff and now I am allergic to it and all its cousins. I also have eczema so my body has a higher amount of staph, so I have been told. Any infection is extra scary to me! Last time I had a doctor diagnosed infection the script was at $11 a pill, never got it filled and I would hate to know what it runs now. Outside of mandatory appts my kids don’t see the inside of a hospital. They have to be majorily sick to go.

  • #1485

    Daisy
    Keymaster

    I got bitten by a black widow spider a few years back and it instantly got infected. I did all the home treatments as we were stuck at home due to mudslides in our area. By the time we were able to leave and I got to the doctor it was terribly infected. The first antibiotic he gave me was not sufficient and I ended up seeing another doctor and getting different, stronger antibiotics, both oral and injected.

    It really made me think about how serious an infection would become in a world without antibiotics and contemporary medical care.

    The germs out there are getting more and more resistant and eventually, we’re going to run out of stronger stuff.

  • #1608

    Inigo Montoya
    Participant

    “This word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means.” 😉

    If I can share a couple of thoughts here. As a paramedic for many years, I’ve seen my share of over use of antibiotics in the hospitals. I think we WAY over use antibiotics in agriculture and in human medicine. They are incredibly useful when appropriate, but their over use is minimizing their effectiveness. Even if you don’t misuse them, the food we eat or water we drink may be building an immunity to them. The bacteria themselves are becoming immune. MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) used to scare the heck out of me, but over time, I realized if I washed my hands regularly, the risk was minimal. Guess what, most of us are covered in staph bacteria right now! Remember SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome)? It was a really nasty bug in Asia. They beat it by implementing rigorous hand washing of all staff who interacted with the infected pt’s. They didn’t find a vaccine. They isolated the sick pt’s and just washed their hands well. I read of a young lady in Africa who treated her entire family infected with Ebola virus and she only wore dishwashing gloves on her hands, trash bags on her feet and bleach bath to clean as she went in and out of the room.

    All of that said, I think we over use anti-bacterial gels and soaps. We are phobic about germs to the point that we have weakened our own immune systems and made ourselves more susceptible to illness. Nothing wrong with getting outside and playing in the dirt.

    SELCO talks about the importance of wound care or lack of in a SHTF scenario. Think about what you can do to avoid the injury / infection in the first place. Daisy, I’ll bet your black widow bite hurt! I lived in a house that was infested with brown recluses and a few black widows in the past, but never (thankfully!!!) got bitten. Avoid the injury if you can. Wear protective clothing when appropriate. Stock up on work gloves, etc. But, after the fact when you’ve been injured: a cut, a scrape, a puncture, clean it and treat it. Think about putting some Steri strips in your First Aid kit for larger lacerations that don’t quite need stitches. Some injuries require oral or IV antibiotics that you will need quickly. Most, can be handled with soap and water. Clean it. Dry it. Apply a small amount of antibiotic ointment ie: Bacitracin, Neosporin, etc. Keep it covered, change the dressings as needed and and it should heal.

    There are many essential oils that are good for antiseptic washes. I’m a HUGE fan of Emu oil for wound care. It is truly a miracle cure for healing the skin in many cases (don’t use it for poison ivy, oak, sumac, etc.). It works great for fire ant bites and promotes healing. Honey is a great aseptic salve to promote curing and is even used in hospitals for wound care and healing burns. There are several over-the-counter cleansers like Hibiclense (chlorhexidine) that work great. I’m also a big fan of Dial soap, but I’d happily use home made grandma’s home made lye soap too.

    So goes the old saying ‘An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!’

    • #4096

      Nw Prepr015
      Participant

      I agree with Inigo Montoya, as a medical assistant for 12 years in primary care and now an RN student working in the hospital, we overuse antibiotics. But honestly, diligent hand washing goes a long way to prevent illness. Also, keeping your hands out of wounds is extremely important, even if they are freshly washed. Early intervention with cleansing and providing a barrier with a bandage or gauze and a thin layer of neosporin ( many people are allergic to neosporin) or vaseline will provide an adequate environment for healing to take place. Of course, there are exceptions such as persons with any chronic disease or if the wound was caused by something that is highly likely to contain possible contaminants. In my experience, most small bites/wounds that do not require sutures can heal quite well without oral or IV antibiotics as long as the individual treats it promptly and has an intact immune system. Any time a person can avoid using antibiotics they should. People think antibiotics cure everything. It’s take alot of time to educate them on the issues with using them inappropriately. Many providers simply don’t have the time or can’t be bothered arguing about it with their patients so they give them whatever gets them out of the office. I do not see a future where this practice will end so being careful to avoid injury in the first place is the best place to start. In the future, most antibiotics if not all the currently available ones will be completely ineffective. Imagine a world where TB or Syphillis cannot be treated. I mention these two because my local health department has been struggling to treat immigrants who have these infections that are moving here from asian countries. Their strains are proving resistant to our available antibiotics.

  • #2527

    Jade Jasmine
    Participant

    Reasonably, resistances are built not only through our use of antibiotics but because these microbes are in competition for resources. Mold, viruses and bacteria are often comfortable in the same environments and want to keep all of the resources available to themselves. It is natural that some of these bugs will build natural tolerances to the defenses of their natural enemies that have built defenses to kill them.

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/04/120411-drug-resistance-bacteria-caves-diseases-human-health-science/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13803

    Additionally, every time someone washes their hands in the hospital, some of these bugs that get knocked off and survive hang out in the drain pipe and party with other bugs and in doing so they trade gossip: such as how to be resistant to certain defenses of common microbial enemies. This happens through genetic swapping between them.

    http://emerald.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/about_antibioticres.shtml

    We certainly exacerbate the issue by swallowing pills every time we sniffle and mostly do more harm to the beneficial microbes in our gut and on our bodies by doing so. The building of resistance to antibiotics is a natural progression of the microbial evolution. Its how they fight each other, we’re just sort of caught in the cross fire really being another resource to be used by some of these critters. Which is why exposure is a good thing in some cases.

    I remember once when me and my sons were sitting outside on the grass playing ball on a beautiful sunny day. My neighbor who had children about the age of mine looked down at me disdainfully out of her window and told me that it was disgusting to be playing in the dirt. I responded by telling her she needed to let her kids eat some dirt or they would never have an immunity. She all but bleached her kids. Seriously. They were never dirty, they were never outside making mud pies and running around barefoot in the yard getting sunshine and cool breezes.

    Some years later after we’d moved away, she found me through a mutual friend of ours and proceeded to apologize to me for being so insulting (an rumor spreading back in the day to our neighbors about how disgusting we were). Her children are sick all the time. They catch every little bug that goes around and not only do they catch it they get the worst end of it every time which leads to other infections just moving right on in. They can never have just a cold it is always accompanied by ear infections and strep or simply evolves into worse things like bronchitis. Her doctor told her that they never had a chance to really build an immunity being so sparkling clean all the time which is what made her think of me. It was a very long conversation and now she is one of my top most customers when it comes to herbal remedies and homeopathic healing.

    As the worlds microbes use us as resources, we have our own defenses like the other microbes to which they build resistances. It is good to get sick and actually just be sick until it passes instead of taking antibiotics and even herbal remedies meant to act in the same manner as modern antibiotics. We don’t live in a world that is conducive to letting things take their natural course on occasion and that is a large part of the problem as well.

    Now, I’m not saying run out and get ebola and not get treated, but what I am saying is that minor and moderate colds shouldn’t be something we swallow a handful of pills for every time we get one to fight it off. Treating symptoms and letting it run its course will help us stay healthier. Sure its miserable but when you get a major cold or the flu you’re better equipped to handle it and that misery will be a bit lesser for it.

    • #2582

      James Mitchner
      Participant

      JJ, I’m reminded of when I was a kid baiting my hook with worms then opening and eating a can of vienna sausage and eating them one by one. *laugh* Lots of dog kisses, too. Still get the dog kisses, but I do wash my hands these days prior to eating.

  • #2555

    Crow Bar
    Keymaster

    Saw my doctor a few weeks ago. She asked if I wanted the flu shot. I said I would rather suffer the flu for the antigens.

  • #2597

    Crow Bar
    Keymaster

    I have a medical and food and bev background.
    When it comes to cooking, I am washing my hands and my work areas constantly.

  • #3651

    namelus
    Participant

    Some alterates from antibiotics and pest control.
    I have been using mushroom spray for 3 years so far no sick days more than feeling a bit off. Feel off or going to known sick area 3 sprays in mouth before 3 after it also works with older family members 75 range and their hospital visits.

  • #3721

    Josefina Arenas
    Participant

    Someone once told me Oregano oil will burn out any illness. It is not for the fainthearted– you need to put it in water before drinking, but it will burn as it goes down.

    Remember the SARS issue in Canada some years ago? They found that those who ate sauerkraut had greater resistance, and if they did get sick, the virus lasted a shorter time. Today we know it’s because of the variety of microbiota in the gut for those who eat fermented food (or play in the dirt ala JJ!)

    I’ve tried not getting the flu shot the last several years and taking a thieves tonic. A few weeks ago I chopped up horseradish root, turmeric root, ginger root, jalapeños, garlic, rosemary, and added peppercorns to the mix. I put that in a mason jar and poured apple cider vinegar with the mother over it. I let it sit for a month, turning it over occassionally, then start taking a tablespoon a day during the winter. So far, so good over the last few years. Avoiding illness in the first place keeps me off the antibiotics because there are no secondary infections to treat.

  • #23503

    John Paret
    Participant

    The most I’m suffering from is that how to puke. Its a very major problem after eating something heavy like Pizza, Burger and chinese etc. After alot of research I have written great 10 thinks which will make you throw up easily.

    Regards

    John Paret

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