Solar Power

[Anonymous]

I’m fed up with having a half dozen power outages a year in the last 3 or 4 years. Takes anywhere from 6 to 12 hours to fix. Had fewer outages years ago and they used to fix them in a couple of hours.

I’m interested in finding websites (or facebook, yuck) of people who use solar power on a daily basis. I just need a place were I can ask questions. I have read about solar power but if you know of books or websites that would be useful, I would like to know.

[DBParticipant]

NM – Do you have anything in particular in mind? Totally off grid, tied into the grid, batteries, garden shed? Maybe save a few steps if you’ve got something in mind.
Also are solar subsidies available in your area and if so would you use them?

[Anonymous]

@DB Yes, I want a battery bank or maybe a Tesla Powerwall. I’m assuming that you need to be grid connected for when you have excess generated power. No, don’t expect to be able to run the A/C, refrigerator, freezer or electric hot water heaters without getting that from the grid.

What I want to run: CPAP machine, alarm system including surveillance cameras and monitor, small refrigerator for insulin, ham and other radios, small TV and satellite receiver for news, Internet router (possible backup satellite Internet connection), Recharge: laptop(s), tablets, cell phones, tools, flashlight batteries, etc., laptop monitor, and a few lights. Yard lights, but not after the SHTF. So, what have I left out?

Haven’t yet thought about subsides. I’m retired so I’m not sure if tax credits would help me much. What would be the reasons for not taking a subsidy if it was available to me?

[DBParticipant]

Gotcha. Sounds like an off grid 2-4 Kwh system with batteries – ish.
All solar components have improved in efficiency and come down in price over the last few years. With the exception of batteries. No earth shattering leaps there yet. AGM batteries will be the way to go, I’m sure.
Forget a power wall at the moment. Can’t get it and no follow on support/repair components available right now, or maybe ever.

As far as subsidies. A lot or conventional power companies are making it so it’s not cost effective for solar, or you can’t do it at all for grid tied. So you may get a nice subsidy on the front end and much higher cost on the back end. E.G., gotta pay extra for the “use” of the grid, specialized metering equipment, higher monthly base bill, etc.

Couple more questions. Is this a DIY or pay somebody to do it all or in part? How’s your local power co. with solar, do they pay, charge or nuetral?

If you’re a pretty decent DIY’er you could design and build the system as I’ve described above and save a few hundred $ mininmum. If not or you want grid tie, you might want to pay a bit extra for them to do the more technical aspects.

[Anonymous]

I read in the paper 2 or 3 years ago that my power company now allows homeowners to grid tie, but I haven’t researched the details yet.

At my age and health climbing around on the roof and in the attic is no longer an option. I’ll have to hire that done or make a new friend, or barter something. I’m pretty sure I could wire up the battery bank, if I had someone to go over the plans before and inspect the work after. My biggest problem is there are no basements around here so I don’t know where to put the batteries. Can’t put them in the living space. I have a 120 amp AGM battery and I tried charging it up in the house. Real quick my lips started burning so I figured the battery must be out gassing so I unplugged the charger and opened all the windows and doors for an hour. Tried again with a less powerful charger, same thing. Not knowing where to put the battery bank is my biggest holdup right now.

I got shocked a few times playing with electronics when I was a kid. I ain’t touching the house wiring. So, need help with that too.

I want to be totally involved in the design, or at least have it explained to me in detail because if the SHTF I’ll have to maintain and maybe expand/replace the system. I will want lots of photos of everything, especially panel installation. Someday somebody else will have to maintain the system and I want lots of documentation.

[DBParticipant]

If you want to grid tie, it’ll need to be inspected to some degree at least. So hiring someone licensed to do that is in the cards.

The beauty of AGM’s is that that they don’t “need” to be housed in their own vented space. Lead acid and the like, do. Of course local building codes can affect that. Off gassing during a normal charge in negligible, during a maintenance charge they can off gas somewhat. You wouldn’t want them in the kitchen naturally, but certainly in a garage or a utility type room. If you’re sensitive though, that is certainly a consideration.

Without subsidies, a lot of solar installers wouldn’t be. Maybe you’ve noticed in your area all the solar co.’s coming and going.
With that said, I’d recommend checking around to see if someone from one of those outfits might do side jobs just like you’re describing. Or maybe an ex-employee that has their own gig in the blue collar trades now that might help you out. I see plenty of that happening especially in rural areas and it’ll save you a lot of time and probably money. They might have access to some cheaper second hand equipment as well.

I’ll post some links after I narrow down some appropriate sites. Basic solar isn’t that hard to comprehend or even set up a nice system. It’s dealing with all the codes, the myriad of equipment options and the potential lifestyle changes if you want to go hard core solar.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, no garage, only a carport. Although, I have thought about enclosing the carport into a garage. I could do that, with some help.

I’ll keep my eye open for the links.

[DBParticipant]

Here’s a couple links to get you started. If you have more questions, I’m happy to help as I can from afar, via this topic/forum or you can PM me.

You could set up a low maintenance, off grid system to run what you initially describe. Barring destruction of your system, you’d have electricity for any/all of those things on your list should the grid be down.

This first one has some good links mentioned.

https://ecgllp.com/files/5214/0200/1304/9-System-Sizing.pdf

This one may give you some quick answers you’re looking for.

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/start-here/gridtie-calculator

A pretty good video and covers some important basics. Has some good pointers for the beginner.

This one for available incentives

Database of State Incentives for Renewables & Efficiency®

[Fred KrugerParticipant]

Buy solar cheap… depends on manufacturers but this wholesaler usually has panels for 28 to 40 cents per kw.
I’ve used them personally several times.
Google sun electronics Miami.
If you are doing solar as a prepper… I’d recommend either an off grid system or a hybrid system.
That way you’ll not need a stand by generator nor its fuel. If you have just a grid tie system…. the grid goes down you go down.

[DBParticipant]

With battery back up, a grid tied system will have power as long as the batteries are getting sufficient charge. That is the most expensive option however.
There are also charge controllers out there for grid tied, no batteries, that have 1 or 2 120v plugs so power can be supplied only when the solar panels are getting enough sun. But that’s really only for charging your cell phone and the like, not for running a major appliance.
I agree with Fred wholeheartedly. Total off grid solar or off grid hybrid is the way to go for prepping purposes.

[DBParticipant]

Here’s a couple good links for solar pricing and related.

http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/surveys/free-solar-panel-price-survey/

http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/

[The Terrible TripletParticipant]

There are ways to power stuff via solar without going grid tied.

The real question with anything solar, comes down to the following:
1) Why?
2) NEEDS vd WANTS.
3) Are you seriously prepared to make lifestyle changes?

On points above:
1) Depending on the why, one can start on another way to reach your goal:
1.1) If power failures are the pressing need to resolve, you don’t need solar.
1.2) If you want to save money, then grid tied is the best way BUT …
1.3) With grid tied, if the grid goes down then your solar system goes off too, a safety feature.
1.4) If you want to go grid tied and cater for power failures, then you need batteries and a hybrid inverter system.
2) Their is a massive price difference NEEDS vs WANTS.
3) Solar systems work best when the sun shines, a wee little caveat one does not realise until it is too late. When is you power usage the most, day or evenings when all comes home?
3.1) If you need power in the evenings, the price tag goes up substantially.
3.2) Catering for bad weather is another issue to consider after the above points have been decided upon.
4) BEFORE you start on solar systems, you have to understand your loads, reduce them. The alternative is seriously more expensive ito panels, batteries and inverter.

I can share / help / guide with a few ideas, if anyone wants?
And I don’t make one cent, so the advice is free and Caveat Emptor applies at all times.

[Anonymous]

You can easily and quite cheaply build your own li-ion battery packs with very little knowledge and overhead to get started. I’ve built a few for my e-bike and they beat lead acid batteries hands down on every level.

Here’s a good tutorial and it’s very easily to scale, but better to hook your needs up into blocks, rather than into a single system. A good place to start is to get a power consumption meter and see what you need. Here’s a source: https://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_usage_monitor.htm

And here’s a resource for building li-ion battery packs.

How To Build A DIY Electric Bicycle Lithium Battery From 18650 Cells

 

 

[namelusParticipant]

Ok how would you build a real life unit of aa or d batteries 1400 amp hours 48 v?  You can buy a surrete rolls set for about $12000  with 80%depth of discharge with 5000 charge cycle life flooded lead acid…. how are you going to lithium that? Small packs ok large ones tech is not there Ballard has huge city storage devices using lithium at 700,000 for one with 10 year warrantee. It’s size 4x4x6 feet and 6 tons. Has massive fire warning as in lithium if caught on fire can split water and increase the fire.

 

This doesn’t happen? Lithium batteries are banned from planes, the cellphone  fires are from lithium batteries.

 

When building solar you are talking 7to10 year payback, life of system is 25. Now ask yourself how cheap do you want to go and still think you will make pay back? Cheap is not the solution if you want it to work for the 25 years. Name one tool that last that long you buy cheap? One electronic device? One mechanical? So cheap does not work, buy quality it will keep you satisfied long  after the joy of a cheap price and constant problems begin.

 

Batteries in my workshop 48v 1400 ex surette rolls no worries on off gassing I have a wood heated shop.

 

 

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by  namelus.

[Anonymous]

Cheap? This doesn’t fit the normal definition of cheap. You most certainly can buy quality samsung, Panasonic, LG, etc. 18650’s, 26650’s, which are protected and add even further protection in your build. Building them yourself is what makes them more economically viable.

I’ve been using li-ion for years and they have been as safe as lead acid. Tip, don’t buy a no name from China.

[namelusParticipant]

Average electric bill is 800 to 1400 a month for me spending 60,000 on solar complete off grid is a no brainer when you do the math.

 

The best solar panels are made in ways a home person  cant manufacture, look at how day4 makes panels, they in my opinion are the best you can buy. There is a place in Germany now on year 14 still operation al at 105 percent of rated output… let’s see how Samsung ( they use silvery epoxy which fails in heating cooling cycles) cheap chinese with corrosive single point solder last. You need a mesh with heavy backing foil, look at what they use in space where you cant get a cheap repair and then make some choices.

 

You get what you pay for if you know what to look for. If you can afford to change there are companies who will finance a change to renewable which will decrease your monthly payments, both is canada and usa. This means only reason you are not moving on this is its not important enough for you or you rent.

 

 

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by  namelus.

[namelusParticipant]

By the way day4 can no longer be purchased, the tech was sold to Italian producer.

[Author]

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