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Some more indications of a global slow down. When USA sneezed the rest of the world got a cold. But now the global economy is so intertwined, even soft sales of iPhones in China impacts Apples stock.
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So my question is this, is a slowdown nothing more than a correction from global glut? I feel like we have been in hyper consumer mode since the 80s. Maybe it’s time for a reversal of that.
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talking to local in my farming community, once deisel stops they will subsistance farm for themselves, they what are the rest of the people going to eat?
Right now so much regulation to farm I spend more time in paperwork than on keeping up on new farming techniques and practices.
Once the animal stocks are gone it may never recover, it takes years to grow a cow into beef, not many place have self hatching chickens, egg layers. most factory farming there are specialized breeding farms and the growing farmers do so on contract, not owning the live stock. It is very fragile.
Low will you survive? Dairies are mainly automated and many are totally reliant on electricity for lighting, milk vacuuming, cold storage. Chickens all heated building with fans and power augers for feed and water, pigs the same.
Once ag land is not used for a few years takes massive amount of work to get it back to production.
Draft city folk to replace farm equipment?
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All true, Namelus. Takes so long to build infrastructure. Collapsing it takes no time at all.
Looking at the big picture is horrifying. The worst is ….well, I’ve heard that the worst uprisings in history have begun over lack of food or the ability to acquire it. Cuz no one wants to be hungry and sure do not want their kids to be hungry.
Very few of those who make choices for us have the slightest clue about agriculture …..pasture/field/orchard to table processes. Or even factory farm to table…as is more common now. If things get too standardized, we lose breeds of animals/poultry and varieties of plant types.
Guess we just have to make our own choices that are still within our control to make. When stuff hits the fan….try not to be there.
OldMtWoman ….I’m trying not to be located HERE when it hits the fan.
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what are the rest of the people going to eat?
They will go on the Maduro diet.
Once the animal stocks are gone it may never recover, it takes years to grow a cow into beef, not many place have self hatching chickens, egg layers. most factory farming there are specialized breeding farms and the growing farmers do so on contract, not owning the live stock. It is very fragile.
Production of enough food for the general public? Nope.
Start a breeding program with any neighbors who have any kind of livestock.Low will you survive? Dairies are mainly automated and many are totally reliant on electricity for lighting, milk vacuuming, cold storage. Chickens all heated building with fans and power augers for feed and water, pigs the same.
I have Amish neighbors, and 3-4 dairies within a few miles of me. One is only maybe a half mile up the road. My chickens free range. I raise the hogs on pasture, but do need some feed to bring them up to slaughter weight by late Oct, early Nov. I could overwinter them, but that brings up a whole new set of problems.
Once ag land is not used for a few years takes massive amount of work to get it back to production.
Goats. No, really, the farm we have was neglicted for 30 years. Bring on the goats! They eat everything, and turn that into meat/dairy. They eat things cows or sheep wont. Their manure helps fertlize the pastures.
Draft city folk to replace farm equipment?
I would rather set up relationships with my neighbors where we all take turns helping each other mow hay (using a scythe), slaughtering of hogs, etc.
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better buy a modern scythe, old ones are heavy compare to aluminum ones and the new steel blades are sharper. It also takes alot of effort and fitness. I felt like I was beaten up like a pinata at an mlb batter try out.
Amish will trim herds once they don’t have transport for goods.
Is your fencing pig proof without a hot wire? Do you do the castration yourself? Do you have transport to work on local farms? Chicken food for winter? Battery and solar hot wire have failures do you have back up?
How are you going to process and store the pork with no power? What are you going to wrap it in? What if you get a disease outbreak? What about water, hogs and cow take alot of water, a small half gallon well bucket means 24 hour water pulling shift.
Water for your crops,? Fire fighting?
Then cutting wood to heat how to do it and get it back to house season it and keep it safe. Can you sharpen a two man saw?
In winter how do you shovel to next farm to get your milk? How do you move hay and grains if you can find it? Ask Amish neighbour all the time? Now if you get big round bales how could you without farm equipment Get it to your animals?
Then add 24/7 security patrol if you hope to keep thwives away.
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better buy a modern scythe, old ones are heavy compare to aluminum ones and the new steel blades are sharper. It also takes alot of effort and fitness. I felt like I was beaten up like a pinata at an mlb batter try out.
I own three. 4 whet stones, a peening jig and hammer.
Not sure why you felt like a pinata. Once you get the hang of it, the motion it is not hard. Quiet enjoyable and relaxing as a matter of fact.Amish will trim herds once they don’t have transport for goods.
Where did the transport for goods go? They have horses, carriages, even flat beds. I see them haul milk containers on horse drawn flat beds about the same time every morning.
Is your fencing pig proof without a hot wire? Do you do the castration yourself? Do you have transport to work on local farms? Chicken food for winter? Battery and solar hot wire have failures do you have back up?
I use portable solar power energizers. Been doing that for going on 7-8 years now.
I was a certifed EMT, Wilderness EMT, do all my own slaughtering and butchering. Castration is easy.
Why do I need transport to work on local farms?
Chicken feed during the winter would be an issue.
But in the past I have grown barley, wheat, buckwheat. The chickens will eat any of those.How are you going to process and store the pork with no power? What are you going to wrap it in? What if you get a disease outbreak? What about water, hogs and cow take alot of water, a small half gallon well bucket means 24 hour water pulling shift.
I have been curing pork and sausage for 6-7 years now. Do it now, learn how to do it right. I have pounds and pounds of pink salt 1 and 2 along with kosher salt by the 7lbs containers.
I have more water than I know what to do with. I have two wells, the second with a hand pump, and this year going to day light the overflow it to the pond. I can fill a 5gal buck in about 10 minutes using the overflow hose, gravity fed.Then cutting wood to heat how to do it and get it back to house season it and keep it safe. Can you sharpen a two man saw?
If I can shapen a scythe I can shapen a two man saw.
In winter how do you shovel to next farm to get your milk? How do you move hay and grains if you can find it? Ask Amish neighbour all the time? Now if you get big round bales how could you without farm equipment Get it to your animals?
Who is shoveling? I strap on the snowshoes and hump it like I do now. I just got back from walking the dogs out in the fields, same as always.
I never use round bales.
I can and have using the scythe, cut, cured bagged and hauled 90days worth of hay for 6 goats. Store it in the hay loft. That was just an experiment for S&Gs. But that also is when community and having good neighbors is essiental. They help me cut, cure and bag hay, I do the same for them. Same goes for any lenghtly chore.Then add 24/7 security patrol if you hope to keep thwives away.
Again, that is where community comes in. Former US Marine. And why would I want to keep the wives away? I like mine.
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@crowbar. You make me laugh!
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LOL…. rolling eyes at Crowbar. [thwives]
However, the point remains about how baaad it will be for urban/suburban folks who do not have a rural/self-sufficiency set up NOR the skills necessary to do anything with it. The only way to support the vast numbers of non-agricultural folks [like me at the present location] is with our huge modern infrastructure…..including trucking/shipping.
Pull that plug and only a tiny percentage of us will still be eating…either with renewable resources or with stored goods.
And the rest will be looking at us…still eating….not starving…. THE HUNGRY will outnumber the prepared….no matter how much we’ve been declaring and teaching and ….
….and I know a fair portion of ‘prepared’ are not sitting where they can be so easily observed by the HUNGRY. Good plan!
…love Crowbar’s set up. Namelus and many others here are also probably deep rural and skilled. It’s the right plan.
OldMtWoman….deep rural, skills, but wrong ecosystem for long term. And too old alone! Hmph.
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@oldmtwoman. As you probably gleamed from my postings, I have recently moved from urban to rural. You know you are rural when USPS, UPS or FedEx Ex won’t deliver to your door.
I moved from the Philadelphia PA area as I observed the worsening conditions, which I believe to be accelerating in their downward spiral.
I agree with Daisy’s recent article that it is gradual, but the collapse is already occurring in urban areas like Philadelphia. The question is how fast and with what variables the collapse will occur and accelerate. I suggest that the collapse has been in progress for years and cycled, but continues to downward spiral.
I am not as self sufficient as @crowbar. He’s a marine and they’ll storm any beach. Lol. I may not be able to castrate a bull, but I am getting quite adapt on snowshoeing and cooking on my wood stove. With downed trees, I can chop that wood up. I don’t need a two man (or woman) saw.
I am working on certain aspects, but I realize no set up is perfect. Community is what helps.
@oldmtwoman. Half the battle is the mindset, which you have in spades. Never under estimate the will to survive. Family and community supports are big pluses. Practice your skills. Keep posting as you educate and make us laugh.
I plan to progress on becoming more self sufficient. Becoming self sufficient is one aspect of my life. I will continue to make plans, but I will continue to live and fight the good life.
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@Loving Life, @Old MtWoman,
Gotta keep ones sense of humor and all, eh? 🙂
We try to go about how to do things as if the S-HAS-ALREADY-HIT-THE-FAN! The whole USMC Train as you Fight, Fight as you Train. And, it is a good exercise into the no kidding, how do you really do it, but also the logistics involved especially if the fuel is gone. Says one thing in the book, but they can and do leave out things that only Practical Application, going through the motions, will show you.
There is a lot of things I do not know how to do. But that is where surrounding yourself with friends and neighbors who do know, or have assets you dont have come into play.
@Loving Life,
Mindset! Good one!
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Ah so many good comments, my sister has had bear , cyote and human problems already on her farm these last months and that with out a collapse. The bear and cyotes killed half the goats and some cows and one of the neighbors stole all her chickens. She couldn’t farm this year because of taking care of our mother and then her husband, who died. It has taken her months to try to clean up brush from the perpetual storms and she has run through her prepping supplies.
They did drag in city kids to work the farms during both WW’s. But when thing really fall apart mostly you just subsist. And man you are right about how hard it is to get a far up and running again once it has been neglected. Had that experience on one in Kansas that had been left for a number of years.
Even if this would be a correction it will be a painful one for many many people world wide.
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We’ve lost 2 of 4 goats to coyote attacks, and we’re in a semi-rural area. Our neighbor says a band of coyotes took down a yearling horse nearby, which sounds crazy to me, but I believe it! We did lose chickens to coyotes a few years ago, but that was due to our stupidity and leaving the hen house door open. Normally, the coyotes try, but can’t get to the chickens. Based on warnings from many different sources, we’re upping our prepping efforts this year, are planning our larger outdoor summer garden, am fashioning some cold frames so we can get started earlier, and will learn about hydroponics this year. We’re also planning to increase our chicken flock.
Has anyone done sprouting? Apparently, even if the greens don’t grow big, sprouts will deliver a ton of nutrients and it can be done indoors.
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You guys are way ahead of the game. We live in what used to be country and now has become urban. They keep selling off farmland and building more houses, apts. and stores out here. Traffic is really bad now and getting worse. The schools can’t hold the amount of kids any longer. We have one acre of land that the house sits in the middle of. So our garden is a small one but produces really good for us so far. I have already built our food supply up to just over a year not counting the 100 or so cans of freeze dried foods that last 25 to 30 years. These are the things we are stocking for things we can’t get later when and if things go south. We have no chickens and not sure we can have them here. So in that freeze dried foods are eggs and milk. Also grain for bread. Though I have been oven canning a lot of flour as well. When I had cleaned the closets out of the buckets of food I put in mylar bags with O2 absorbers. I found a bucket of corn meal that I did back in 2015. It somehow got pushed to the back and now since it is corn meal though I am wondering if it will still be good to use. I haven’t tried it out yet as I am still going through things. Not sure how our neighbors are going to pull together as most of them have their heads in the sand. No one talks about being prepared around here. Though I think maybe a couple of neighbors here are. Kind of scary to think about how this neighborhood will react to all of this when it happens. I really need to start thinking about a privacy fence around our back yard as we live on a corner lot.
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“If I can shapen a scythe I can shapen a two man saw.”
Maybe. Probably poorly unless you happen to have the right files, and the right jig to hold that beast so you get consistently correct angles. And some experience.
Best way get the experience is to acquire a new or old two-man saw (the one I bought new from crosscutsaw.com came in horrible shape and required hours to fix). Most old saws have been used and abused by amateurs so they need a bunch of fixing as well.
I couldn’t find a jig that allowed me to maintain the same angle when turning the saw around to work the alternate set of teeth, so I had to build one.
One of the “barterable skills” I decided on was sharpener of manual tools. Scythes, chisels, various drill bits, hand saws, clippers and shears, scissors, knives and swords. Each has special requirements and tools, along with consumables that need stocking. A stack of spare Tormek grindstones doesn’t come cheap, nor do files in boxes of 10-20 per size/style. Then you have to store them just as carefully as storing guns because they will rust with any significant humidity.
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“And the rest will be looking at us…still eating….not starving…. THE HUNGRY will outnumber the prepared….no matter how much we’ve been declaring and teaching and ….”
But not for long. One good winter will probably solve most of the problem. Hence the need to be either:
- Invisible while you wait for the die-off to happen, or
- Part of a community with natural geography that enables control of the area by controlling a few choke-points, and the manpower, and the firepower, and c3i, to maintain 24/7 security. Places like those will become trade hubs later on.
I’m opting for invisible, until It becomes time to go Nomad and find one of those trade hubs.
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