November 14, 2021 at 1:00 pm #42115
I got to thinking on what would it cost for the average American, in reasonably good shape, to get training to the level of some of the characters in the book Patriots without joining the armed forces.
I am using Gunsite Academy for their long history of training as reference.
250 Pistol Class, 5 days, $1,795. Plus 1000 rounds of pistol ammo. Lets say 9mm, $495.99.
The characters exhibit (from what I recall) a bit more then just the entry level pistol class,
350 Intermediate Pistol Class, 5 days, $2,025. Plus 1,200 rounds of ball ammo, and 100 frangible. 9mm, $590 for 1,200 rounds of ball, and about $60 for the 100 rounds of frangible.
223 Carbine Class, 5 days, $1,835. 1,200 rounds of 5.56, say $815 and $25 for 100 of 9mm.
556 Advanced Carbine, 5 days, $2,025. 1,200 rounds of 5.56 at $815, 200 rounds of frangible at $116, 150 rounds of 9mm at $75 and 50 rounds of frangible 9mm at $30.
Precision Rifle 7 class, 7 days, $2,325. 600 rounds of match grade .308WIN at $1,816.
So, about 27 days (not including travel to and fro), $10,005 for class, $4,837 for ammo or a grand total of $14,842.
Still does not account for hotel, food, car rental, gas etc.
And, of course, the firearms themselves, kit etc.
November 14, 2021 at 1:21 pm #42119
Man I’d hate to think of the cost of a fast track program. I’ve culminated stuff and training and experience over 40years
November 14, 2021 at 1:33 pm #42123
After listening to a recent Joe Rogan podcast, I was struck by how uneducated and ill-prepared the average citizen is for bug out and survival. Having endured multiple survival courses (and refreshers), I have a huge head start. I can’t imagine what the cost would be, probably $50k+ for the months of training. The costs and time involved are staggering. In times like this, I value my previous training.
November 14, 2021 at 2:39 pm #42127
What podcast was that?
November 14, 2021 at 3:08 pm #42128
November 15, 2021 at 10:15 am #42143
November 14, 2021 at 4:59 pm #42130
Training is good but a massive difference between training and two way range and a 2 way rifle range.
Also most have mental safeties to avoid killing and harming others, and you will have to live with after math of psychology problems that comes with killing other humans.
Training helps because first few times it happens it muscle memory and instinctive actions reactions. You can tell when running group who has actual experience and who has training only.
That being said a kid with a gun and zero traing can kill you just as fast as pro can, a trap or something as simple as hygiene.
For most I would suggest some combat training but doing sere course is far more invaluable second would be learn the stalking trade craft. Far more effective to move unseen than to be a good gun fighter, and most likely live longer
November 15, 2021 at 8:53 am #42141BarrensHomeyParticipant
Fifty thousand dollars and some months to get up to speed? I’m building a house, that cash (and time) is already committed. Are there any “distance learning” options we mere mortals can tap into? Are all those tactical training UTube videos worth viewing? Of course they won’t be as thorough as in person training, but I’m not going up against the PLA I hope, more likely the occasional gang of meth heads with no plan other than destruction.
November 15, 2021 at 9:40 am #42142
Brother there are videos but there are things you can do at home that’ll make you way better. There’s a Japanese shooter who wins on the circuit and can’t even have his gun in his country.
Dry Fire is number one. Pick a target say a light switch and come from the holster locked in and under garment if that’s how you carry. Then move up to multiple targets say the lamp, a picture and light switch. Varying heights and distances. Same with long guns just skipping the holster part.
Then move to using a light.
Then move to moving and clearing rooms.
place the couch cushions or something down and get all the mags you got. Put them in pockets and carriers and everywhere and work on nothing but mag changes over and over but drop them on the cushions to take care of them.
Work on transitions from long gun to handgun
As a firearms trainer the other big thing I tell people is to get stronger. Arms, shoulders all the way down to feet. You need to be able to hold the gun, to hold it a long time steady and to move but retain control. literally stand one one foot and swing the gun from target to target across the room. Was your leg or foot strong enough?
These things will get you farther than most videos
November 15, 2021 at 10:20 am #42144
While I rather have formal training, I learn a lot from books.
What Matt says is spot on.
To get our muscles ready for the qualification range, we stated as soon as we got issued our rifles to slowly bring the rifle up to our shoulder, hold it there for 30 seconds, the slowly lower it. As the weeks went by, the Drill Instructors would increase the time. Really feel it in your arms, shoulders and back.
I have considered getting some of those laser dummy rounds that will illuminate on a target when the trigger is squeezed, but I think I am going to stick to my air pistols
November 15, 2021 at 4:27 pm #42160
Make time to go to the range. Every year for the last 20 years I heard “we can’t all be like you” at the range.
YES you can. I go every other week or so. It was my job and a priority.
You can’t qualify once a year and not practice and be a SFRangerSealRaiderSWAT and actually believe you’ll beat a professional with anything but luck.
If your into preparedness as a survivalist preppers or whatever your supposed to be above the GP and it takes more than buying stuff to do so.
November 15, 2021 at 10:23 am #42145
Been considering what about a what would it cost for bare basics of just prepping in general?
Basic firearms course, basic first aid, basic hunting and processing of game (namely deer). Canning. Gardening. Salting and curing of meats. Cheese.
Think I would have to separate it down into short term, mid and long term prepping.
November 15, 2021 at 11:09 am #42151
That’s too much time for me to spend on it 😂
November 15, 2021 at 4:08 pm #42158
It would also need to take into consideration if those things are possible in your location. Hunting for meat may not be option.
Basic firstaid here you can volunteer at ambulance and firefighters search and rescue and get free training.
For gun training many here get taught from relatives who have military experience.
Right now unless you have tons of cash the long term prepping is beyond most budgets at this point.
Gun purchases would look at estate sales might get a decent price but you have to know what you are looking for.
To get together a long term bug out plan without a second piece of land I would think a conservatively be 100,000 number would would cover cost which not much frills. And for 1 maybe 2 people more would be 50k plus per addition.
Trailer to haul items and live in.. 40k assumes you have vehicle that can tow
Salting cheese making and canning… lots of older folks need help doing the work from thier garden… extra help is always wanted. Granted I live in a farmer region.
Trailer to haul items and live in.. 40k assumes you have vehicle that can tow
Guns and ammo 15,000
Proper food not just freeze dried mre or bucket food 12,000 a year or person assuming prices stay like this.
Fuel $4000 vehicle fuel to get to you place and enough heating gear through one winter.
Clothing $3000 ponchos boots layered gear specific to your region.
Force multipliers $5000 nv, trial cams, manual alarms ect
Other food gathering /food prep $4000 snares, fish traps,, making a solar dehydrator, solar oven, rocket stove, smoker a ton of salt.
Medical minimum first aid kit with enough to use incase of real emergancy $5000. Remember you will need replacements or stock after each incident. Also what you have may be the only care you get not like now a hospital to go to.
That has zero training in it. A ball park guess
November 22, 2021 at 2:15 am #42292WhirlibirdParticipant
Firearms, you don’t need a high end training class, or to expend thousands of rounds.
You do however need to get familiar with them, enough so that you know how they work and how to run them.
W. E. Fairbairn taught pistol combat classes with a mere 50’ rounds. And this was to gents getting into nightly shootouts with hardened criminals.
I have taught “carbine” classes with only 100 rounds expended.
In my experience, for what it’s worth, once you have the basic handling down, 90% is just getting faster and smoother. Advanced classes are realistically just speed oriented and more tactics normally.
Looking at one of the advanced classes I took, we learned how to do the Australian Peel. Squad tactics and the like. The only problem with that is that we could only field about 4 guys on our best day, and normally we were operating solo. Our closest help may be 35 miles away. So all of the squad tactics were useless. Fun but useless.
Now put 3-4 people together who have been working with solo tactics and the situation changes. But even that is beyond many peoples wallets to learn.
Point one: Can you load and unload the weapon(s) smoothly? Without looking? Note I did not say fast.
Point two: Can you hit a 10” and 6” paper plate with your weapons at reasonable ranges? How smoothly?
The reason for the last is realistic targets. Place a 10” paper plate on your chest, look in the mirror. Anything behind that is vital.
Now take the 6” paper plate and place it in front of your face, same thing.
Go to the range, draw your pistol and nice and slow, shoot the target (paper plate) out to where you can’t make reliable hits. There’s your maximum range with that gun.
Now bring it in and start shooting as fast as you can make hits reliably. When you can’t make reliable hits, there’s your “limit” for now.
Don’t limit your rounds to one per draw, but fire a single, then a couple, then a pair, etc., occasionally do a mag dump controlling every round. You don’t want to get in the mindset that one round is all you need. Shoot until the threat is over.
Familiarity with a firearm is often better than a class can get you. I lost a “match” to a gent who hadn’t shot a rifle since the Chosin Reservoir. He used a Garand (mine in fact) and I used my duty AR. Up close it was almost a tie, but when the distance extended, he easily had me past 100y.
When it came to pistols, I more than made up for the previous session because that is what I practiced with and handled daily.
Once you get familiar, start with the tactics and go from there.
There are a mess of older Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) videos on YouTube, and you can learn a lot from them. The information is still valid, just not the current packaging.
Fairbairn, Gabe Suarez, Louis Awerbuck (dec.), Chuck Taylor (dec.) and Col. Jeff Cooper (dec.) are all excellent people to look up and learn from.
Honestly, those 6 gents are where I have stolen a great deal of my own classes from. With tidbits from Bill Jordan, Rex Applegate, and Col. Charles Askins thrown in for good measure.
Look them all up.
November 22, 2021 at 4:16 am #42294
The dinner plate model is useless for target practice in my opinion most have body armor so you hav a 6×4 inch card target which is size of open face with a helmet on.
Sure you can learn for under 100 rounds , how much to keep that perishable skill? Would after 100 rounds the person be able to use gun yes be able to do combat no.
Shooting at range is one thing … shooting in 2 way range is way different. If you dont training for 2 way range when shft hits you will likely not make it as targets dont stand still and wait for you to place shot unless an ambush and only for 1 maybe 2 shots unless you get some really stupid and untrained people.
Had an instructor say would never need more that one magazine to take out a problem…. what if you are at 150 to 400 yards and only have a pistol and not much cover… that will take more than 32 rounds (stupidly large unwieldy pistol magazine) to get it solved. Now reverse it and you are with rifle do you think you can aim and put round in target while being shot at? Usually a 1 second between aimed spaced rounds to keep suppression fire on a position so you can move… can you do this if solo? Do you have anything to improve you chances with concealment?
ask yourself could you do that when tired wet cold hungry in the dark after 3 days on 8 hours sleep total.
Train hard easy mission easy training fills cemeteries.
Also you may be at disadvantage with no nv or thor , they see you and you dont see them.
I am not saying you need to be insert fictional character to survive, just know your limits and stay within them. Hence the sere and stalk training the dont fight unless no other way, simply because most probably wont survive it. Even if you get shot have a vest and have a no penetration event, what do you do for broken ribs? Internal injuries from blunt trauma? If you go down how does your group adapt? What if you dont come back?
It’s easy to say now in comfort of home you would fight. Sometimes there is no choice but to fight, just be real sure you know which one of those are your best options to match your training level. 50 rounds and 100 rounds and dry fire help but are simply not even close to proficient for combat. Handle weapon sure not hurt someone or yourself maybe more than that probably not even close.
November 23, 2021 at 2:16 pm #42293WhirlibirdParticipant
Forgot to mention Jim Cirillo in the list of instructors.
Here’s a few videos to get your minds working.
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/PL42vSJRV60</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/N8oRhTm2Au4</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/4IzMHqkGc38</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/q0vLitHoRD4</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/6HFFqADiU3k</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/jP7J-JNSUu4</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/tl1rR6bFRq8</span></p>
<p class=”p2″><span class=”s1″>https://youtu.be/1MSi4jjgNwU</span></p>
November 23, 2021 at 4:46 pm #42310TolikParticipant
Also need somebody trained in torture ………..uhm , I mean ” interrogating ” prisoners .
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