February 1, 2021 at 11:23 am #33209
Ultimately, armor or no, the best defense against bullets is to not get shot in the first place.
February 1, 2021 at 12:25 pm #33210
Definitely. Armor is not a substitute for tactics.
There are times for it and times not. Good sense goes a long ways. Your not going to wear it gardening because it’s to hot, too heavy and if you can’t hoe a row without getting sniped then something needs to change. Armor isn’t going to solve that problem.
It’s rarely a one n done solution. In SHTF and in regular times, well as regular as that is these days, you need a armor kit, a lighter kit like a LBE/chest rig and just a way to carry extra mags. This is ONLY if your physically capable. If not then ONLY carry what you can. Not everyone is going to benefit from it.
February 1, 2021 at 12:42 pm #33212
I know of way too many who think of body armor as some kind of all encompassing force field. The only place they will get shot, will be in the center of their armor at a right angle to the plate.
And it is all well and good . . . as long as you do not have to hump with it for a long distance, or uneven terrain. Even worse if in those conditions in a running fire fight.
And dont fall down. More people tend to break their wrist or collar bones trying to stop a fall. Even worse with that additional weight.
February 1, 2021 at 1:37 pm #33213
The other issue as bad as the armor itself can be what is put on it.
Flexcuffs- why? Cause SEALS do it
Electric Screwdriver- why? Cause a SWAT movie had it on an elevator
Morale Patches -why? Cause my range buddies like them too
Ballbat- why? Cause Neigan
IR patches and IR strobes-why? Cause Delta
Never mind you’ve got no place or plans for prisoners, no night vision, no sense and no taste. You mind end up in the brush and the stuff might get hung up. Very little of what we do will be mission specific accomplished in an hour with support staff.
Real simple: If it don’t kill or cure it don’t go on there
February 1, 2021 at 3:55 pm #33216
Be amazed at how much stuff can get caught up on webbing getting in and out of MRAPs, up-armored Hummers and helos.
February 2, 2021 at 4:59 am #33231namelusParticipant
Or the jingle bells of loose crap… do you train hand to hand with armor and against armored opponents?
Heavy cable ties have many uses not that cheap $hit at hardware store… the industrial cable ties that are 3/16 thick with razor blade one way stops that can hold 800 lb… you are not breaking those using your body like cheap cuffs.
Also shoulder and groin ballistic protection … why cause when shooting starts you hit the dirt and what parts are still.exposed?
If you dont have a jock strap for shft you are foolish if you think in real life or death will be like a mma match. With rules about groin hair eye attacks.
Yeah want to f up force multipliers like nv? Try and use it with a strobing red/ uv light…. if you have gen 1 or 2 gear you will go blind for a few minutes… even gen 5+ nv can be tendered useless with a led light bulb if used correctly.
Also with armor and plates what happens if you end up in water with lvl 5 ar 500 plate along with rest of battle rattle… are you that good a swimmer… have you tried?
Do you have spare plates or replacement ones?
Do you have hearing protection with directional sound amplification? Does it fit with helmet or you forgoing that? How about work with nv or thermal optics?
Do you have enough batteries for all your high tech gear ? How about in winter outside when battery life is 50 percent? Got a pocket sewn inside next to your body to keep them warm? Does it work without undoing your body armor?
Do you have hidden armor that unlike a slim line vest looks like ordinary clothing?
Do you know how to clean and care for your gear ….. do you know its expiration date?
Have you heard of liquid crystal armor… its flexible light and can be both vest and the plate replacement. http://moratex.eu/en/
How fast can you don you full gear if you hear your door get breached from a dead sleep? It’s no good if you are not wearing it.
Do you have small hall ways and a house with drywall walls? Ballistic shield might be more useful since it can protect more than one person.
Can you take off your vest if it catches fire? What about all your gear ? Is it all strapped to vest? All that weight on shoulders leads to issues especially if you have to live in it for weeks on end…… getting a weight lifting belt incorporated into design after market allows weight transfer to your hips.
At night how do you tell your friendly from foe? Especially if having to come back during a fire fight at night.. all armored look the same in shadows except for size. Thinking a sound will be notification of friendlies um without hearing protection you wont be hearing anything but ringing for awhile after mag of gun fire.
Also if you do get penetration of a vest do you know how to clean out kevlar from a wound so infection does not start?
All armor is not the same…. the better protection and lighter stuff is crazy expensive one suit with plates can easily by $3000 or you can get some for $500 what can you afford? Or a plate carrier and steel plate for $200 better than nothing but….. up to you…
Do you know how to fix a hole or tear in your armor.. yeah yeah if damaged dont wear… like in shft you have that luxury.
February 2, 2021 at 8:00 am #33234
Yup lots of choices to be made. I’ve forgone them full sideplates, groin, shoulders etc. I’ve got a kit with it but it’ll kill me from heat before the bullet will round here.
I hate doing the MMA turtle when ya fall to your back and gotta fight. Lol It requires so much more energy just getting up to fight effectively that I get tired just thinking bout it
Them fancy non steel plates don’t always stop arrows
There’s lots of choices and things to consider besides what looks cool, what SealRangerDelta 01 from the interwebs says. Choose wisely and don’t be afraid to make changes
February 2, 2021 at 8:38 am #33238
IF I see someone coming at me, in armor, I am aiming MOG (minute of groin).
February 17, 2021 at 12:36 am #33753WhirlibirdParticipant
Funny thing, @Crow Bar mentions something that I have been training for years.
Back when I was copping, we started playing with different scenarios and the one that was always a winner was the crotch shot.
Rifle or shotgun, bad day for the target.
The rifle breaks the pelvis if struck, but also tends to have enough hydrostatic shock dealing with the major arteries/veins that any activity is normally curtailed.
The follow up shot is generally a forehead shot.
In the days of plate carriers that may or may not have plates, or cheap chinese copies, what were once secondary targets make sense, at least for a first round.
What happens when you crank a .308 soft point bullet into the shoulder or thigh? Or put a .224” soft point into a boot or knee pad?
What it is, is an introduction from fate.
Think about the soft targets around the hard armor.
February 17, 2021 at 8:28 am #33754
In Afghanistan, there was great interest in anyone having taken hits to their body armor.
I read one report, the troop took a 7.62x54R to his chest plate. It protected him (ceramic plates).
But he said it was like someone took a full swing with a sledge hammer to his chest.
February 17, 2021 at 11:08 am #33759namelusParticipant
Getting hit with a 12 gauge slug with steel plates still killed guy as it drove pieces of rib into the heart and lungs.. kinetic was way too much. It was close range less than 20 feet in building fighting.
February 17, 2021 at 2:15 pm #33762
Trauma pads from AR500 behind the plates will negate death in many cases and reduce injury
February 17, 2021 at 3:24 pm #33765
Just for the record I hate recommending anything from AR500 because their lead times are false and always longer and their customer service is full of attitude however I don’t have an alternative. I’m going to attempt to post links
March 9, 2021 at 8:31 pm #34256
I think I found my armor type 😂
When ya got vaccinations at 9 but gotta fight isis at 11 😂
March 10, 2021 at 8:31 am #34266
That is awesome!
Thank you for the morning laugh!
July 27, 2021 at 7:47 am #38889
This is an interesting development in armor we might see later down the road
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